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View Diary: Update: Obama's Big Lie About NAFTA (80 comments)

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  •  Has Obama stopped lying about this yet? (1+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    Jacob Freeze
    Hidden by:
    Scoopster

    It's kinda bizarre.

    Here's the skinny, minus all the obfuscatory fluff:

    The meat of the CTV report:

    On Wednesday, CTV reported that a senior member of Barack Obama's campaign called the Canadian embassy within the last month saying that when Senator Obama talks about opting out of the free trade deal, the Canadian government shouldn't worry. The operative said it was just campaign rhetoric not to be taken seriously.

    Totally caught out on his attempt to use NAFTA as a club in Ohio, Obama opted to lie:

    Earlier Thursday, the Obama campaign insisted that no conversations have taken place with any of its senior ranks and representatives of the Canadian government on the NAFTA issue. On Thursday night, CTV spoke with Goolsbee, but he refused to say whether he had such a conversation with the Canadian government office in Chicago. He also said he has been told to direct any questions to the campaign headquarters.

    Here is the relevant part of the memo:

    "Noting anxiety among many U.S. domestic audiences about the U.S. economic outlook, Goolsbee candidly acknowledged the protectionist sentiment that has emerged, particularly in the Midwest, during the primary campaign," a consulate staffer wrote, according to AP. "He cautioned that this messaging should not be taken out of context and should be viewed as more about political positioning than a clear articulation of policy plans."

    The CTV report was a direct reflection of the memo, but all was denied by the bellowing dittoheads here, launching into ad hominem attacks on CTV as the "FOX News of Canada," etc. No wonder this dishonest, vacuous campaign is tanking.

    •  *sigh* Once again (9+ / 0-)

         Goolsbee "was frank in saying that the primary campaign has been necessarily domestically focused, particularly in the Midwest, and that much of the rhetoric that may be perceived to be protectionist is more reflective of political maneuvering than policy

      See that? The debate over free trade not the debate over NAFTA. He's saying that Obama is not a protectionist even if he does support altering NAFTA, which by the way is CONSISTENT with what Obama says on the trail.

      Here's what the memo says about NAFTA

         On NAFTA, Goolsbee suggested that Obama is less about fundamentally changing the agreement and more in favour of strengthening/clarifying language on labour mobility and environment and trying to establish these as more `core' principles of the agreement."

      Oh wow. What a liar. That's almost word for word what he says in his stump and what he said at the debate. If he's giving them the "wink wink" he's not very good at it.

      And finally the money quote:

       

       In a statement, the Canadian Embassy expressed regret on how the discussions have been interpreted.

         The statement said "there was no intention to convey, in any way, that Senator Obama and his campaign team were taking a different position in public from views expressed in private, including about NAFTA."

      Where did he lie? Tell me? The CTV report was blatantly false. And the memo, which is basically a non issue was leaked to because it gave the appearance of corroborating the bogus CTV story.

    •  Globe and Mail, JMKnapp (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      maxomai, Ahianne, Scoopster, cadejo4

      Here's the link:

      http://www.theglobeandmail.com/...

      This is the very same guy who leaked this very dubious Obama memo, and he was heard by various reporters saying that it was HILLARY's campaign who was playing both sides of the street.  Any response, JM?

      •  The memo exists (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jacob Freeze

        ...and says what it says. Do you deny that?

        That is what CTV initially reported and Obama lied about. Again:

        Earlier Thursday, the Obama campaign insisted that no conversations have taken place with any of its senior ranks and representatives of the Canadian government on the NAFTA issue. On Thursday night, CTV spoke with Goolsbee, but he refused to say whether he had such a conversation with the Canadian government office in Chicago. He also said he has been told to direct any questions to the campaign headquarters.

        Who leaked it is a side issue. If you can come up with similar proof that Hillary's campaign did the same thing, then maybe you'll have something. No doubt this character is an unreliable source, but the memo is what it is, and has nothing to do with him.

        Facts are funny things.

        •  Brodie was heard by various reporters... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ahianne, Same As It Ever Was

          ...claiming that Hillary's campaign did exactly what you are faulting Obama's campaign for allegedly doing.  Your apparent willingness to focus only on the Obama story, while ignoring the story emanating from the VERY SAME SOURCE for the leaked memo, is very telling.

          You are hereby charged with being a hypocrite of almost republican shamelessness, JM.  How plead you?

          •  The memo mentions Goolsbee (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Jacob Freeze

            ...saying the same thing that CTV reported. That of course is the story, and the memo is the "source" that has caused Obama extreme embarrassment.

            What corroboration do you have that the Hillary campaign did the same thing?

            This is more evidence of Obamite cultlike behavior, as they've done nothing but attack the sources of this story, rather than addressing Obama's prima facie dishonesty.

            I particularly enjoyed how CTV instantly becoame the "FOX News of Canada" for daring to cast a negative light on St. Obama. That is a charge never laid at the feet of CTV before this. Of course, this was in the heady days before the consulate memo came out and cut Obama off at the knees.

            •  Your charge (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ahianne, Tonedevil

              of

              rather than addressing Obama's prima facie dishonesty

              has been directly debunked twice in this subthread and in the very memo you rely upon.  Yet you ignore those comments and continue jumping up and down and crying wolf.

              I'm sorry. I'm pissed. I can no longer live up to the standard Obama sets.

              by Same As It Ever Was on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 06:54:02 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Yes. The campaign handled it badly (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ahianne, Scoopster

          I don't deny that. The denial and subsequent "what the hell do we do" scramble was not pretty. HOwever, it does not change the fact that what Goolsbee says in the memo about NAFTA is EXACTLY what he says in his stump speeches? do you deny that?

          The original CTV report said that someone from the Obama campaign contacted the Canadian Ambassador. That was false information. ANd I think they were confused and caught off guard. The subsequent denials were handled badly. Obama blew it. But it doesn't mean the whole wasn't bs. The memo was used to corroborate the CTV when in fact they are completely unrelated.

          The Obama camp should have come out and been up front about the Goolsbee meeting from the beginning. LEsson learned.

        •  The memo says (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ahianne, Tonedevil

            On NAFTA, Goolsbee suggested that Obama is less about fundamentally changing the agreement and more in favour of strengthening/clarifying language on labour mobility and environment and trying to establish these as more `core' principles of the agreement."

          Far from a lie, this is exactly what Obama said in the Ohio debate.

          You can take lines out of the memo and divorce them from their context.  But when you do, it's you who's being dishonest, not Obama.

          I'm sorry. I'm pissed. I can no longer live up to the standard Obama sets.

          by Same As It Ever Was on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 06:52:45 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Obama lied about the contacts (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Jacob Freeze

            ..and their (Goolsbee at least) giving assurance that the trade posturing was campaign bullshit. Obama (and his supporters) can continue to act like children and claim that every negative story on him is a "lie" because of some ridiculous parsing, but it doesn't really help his case.

            End of story.

    •  You are ignoring (4+ / 0-)

      the fact that the CTV report itself has been exposed to be a manipulation.  It's not Obama supporters saying that but the Globe & Mail and the CBC.  You are taking the same line as the Harper government.

      •  Ad hominem fallacy (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jacob Freeze

        The memo exists and matches the CTV report.

        •  it does NOT match the CTV report. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          maxomai, Ahianne, Scoopster

          On Wednesday, CTV reported that a senior member of Obama's campaign called the Canadian government within the last month -- saying that when Senator Obama talks about opting out of the free trade deal, the Canadian government shouldn't worry.

          First of all he's never said he would opt out. He said we should use the threat of opt out as leverage and also said on the stump that an opt out is not realistic. Second he did not call the Canadian government. They initiated the contact with him.

          That's what they were denying. The Goolsbee memo does not corroborate any of this. The language about "political positioning" was the stenographer's summary of a conversation about protectionism. Maybe taking a protectionist tone for political reasons is hyppocritical but that's splitting hairs. When it comes to the meat of what he said about NAFTA it matches his public statements. Period.

          •  If that's what they were denying (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Jacob Freeze

            ...it's parsing in the extreme. What difference does it make if it was a phone call, or face-to-face meeting? The salient point is that Obama (Goolsbee) told them that his campaign rhetoric was BS political posturing. And note that his denial said no contact had been made on the issue.

            And I saw the Ohio debate--Obama threatened to opt out of NAFTA for the first time. I suspect this was to try to defuse the growing charge that he was pandering on NAFTA because he hadn't said he would end it.

            It was an empty threat, I realize, as he is a NAFTA supporter and wouldn't be so stupid as to get rid of it.

            But the heart of the issue is his dishonesty and pandering.

            •  Again, that's not what he said (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ahianne, Scoopster

              They were discussing the campaign rhetoric in reference to the fact that NAFTA was going to become a major issue on the trail. And that the frequency at which it shows up in his speeches is about political positioning and does not mean that Obama is a protectionist. These comments were summarised in the memo as what you just said. I don't really see that as hyppocritical.

              And again, you're ignoring the fact that the memo says he wants to renegotiate, which is what he said on the trail. There is no contradiction. The part about political positioning was referring to the overall tone of his speeches and the fact that someone might interpret them as protectionist.

              Obama said many times that he is not a protectionist. he said trade deals are a reality and the global economy is not going away BUT trade deals should have environmental and other standards in place.

              And yes, the way the campaign denied things was stupid. I acknowledge that. They handled this issue very badly.

            •  And btw, the embassy that wrote the report (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ahianne, Scoopster

              had this to say:

               

               In a statement, the Canadian Embassy expressed regret on how the discussions have been interpreted.

                 The statement said "there was no intention to convey, in any way, that Senator Obama and his campaign team were taking a different position in public from views expressed in private, including about NAFTA."

              The memo was exploited for political purposes.

            •  And it's nott the phone call vs. face/face (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Scoopster

              That's not what's important. What's important is Obama didn't initiate the contact.

    •  actually, the Clinton campaign began this (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Scoopster, arielle

      They are the ones who called the Canadians to reassure them, not the Obama campaign. Of course, the Clinton campaign and its surrogates would never face the facts, would they? Here are the facts:

      Mr. Brodie, apparently seeking to play down the potential impact on Canada, told the reporters the threat was not serious, and that someone from Ms. Clinton's campaign had even contacted Canadian diplomats to tell them not to worry because the NAFTA threats were mostly political posturing.

      The Canadian Press cited an unnamed source last night as saying that several people overheard the remark.

      The news agency quoted that source as saying that Mr. Brodie said that someone from Ms. Clinton's campaign called and was "telling the embassy to take it with a grain of salt."

      The entire article is here:

      http://www.theglobeandmail.com/...

      You owe everyone on this site an apology for peddling falsehood. Are you going to admit your dishonesty, or behave like a Clinton?

    •  Way to stay on top of the news cycle. n/t (0+ / 0-)

      "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

      by newfie on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 06:27:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not sure if Clintons should point out lying (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Same As It Ever Was

      in other people.

      Lynch mob partipants volunteered, too.

      by cskendrick on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 07:25:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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