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View Diary: Some Inconvenient Findings for Obama (324 comments)

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  •  "Repeat victories in Michigan and Florida"? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tbetz, Mia Dolan

    The primaries in those two states have no standing in the eyes of the DNC because they were held in violation of the agreed-on schedule.

    They're about as significant in determining the nominee as today's Grapefruit League games are in determining who goes to the World Series.

    John McCain's Straight Talk Express runs on fossil fuels.

    by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 08:50:09 PM PST

    •  Let's have a do-ever (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dori

      so she can win again!

      Together, we will turn promises into action, words into solutions and hope into reality.

      by psychodrew on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 09:02:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Let's (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mentaldebris, Mia Dolan

        But HRC does not want do overs. I hope she could tell us why but like with most things with Mrs Clinton I'm sure us dumb voters aren't mature enough to be privy to what she really thinks, if she told us what she really thinks we might not vote for her, and she was promised the presidency and us latte drinking Volvo driving  unemployed trust funders and black people have no right to take away what she was promised. We are just the voters and are far to immature to be allowed to know what Hillary really thinks.

      •  Hillary won't allow it. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dump Terry McAuliffe, Mia Dolan

        Contrary to the unsourced blog post you cited, while Obama has said that any solution that's approved by the DNC will be fine with him, Hillary has said that she will not accept a caucus in Florida and Michigan.

        It is clear that Hillary fears a do-over.

        •  <crickets> (0+ / 0-)

          I asked nicely twice, Drew.

          Have you got anything to support your claim?

          •  Sorry, tbetz (0+ / 0-)

            In case you haven't noticed, I'm outnumbered here and I'm trying to respond as quickly as I can.  My source in the diary was incorrect.  I linked the wrong source by mistake.  My fingers got ahead of my brain.  ;)

            Here is a news source on the Obama's opposition to a firehouse primary in Michigan.  Yesterday, James Carville offered to raise $15 million if the Obama campaign would also raise $15 million to pay for new primaries in both states.

            Together, we will turn promises into action, words into solutions and hope into reality.

            by psychodrew on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 10:22:24 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  No caucus (0+ / 0-)

          Caucuses disenfranchise too many voters and clearly play to Obama's strengths.

          Hillary sent James Carville out to raise money to fund new primaries.  She wants new primaries.  Not caucuses.

          Together, we will turn promises into action, words into solutions and hope into reality.

          by psychodrew on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 10:13:19 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I knew you'd run that excuse! (0+ / 0-)

            It's as bogus as your claim that Obama won't permit a do-over.

            A Michigan caucus is just an election run by the party instead of the government.

            No reason why Florida couldn't have the same thing.

            What's Hillary afraid of?

            •  It's a good excuse. (0+ / 0-)

              Because it's true.  The Texas prima-caucus established that.  She won the primary by four points, but lost the caucus by double-digits.

              If Obama supported democracy, he would not insist on methdod that draws far fewer voters merely because the format plays to his advantages.

              Together, we will turn promises into action, words into solutions and hope into reality.

              by psychodrew on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 10:24:20 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  You might be able to convince me... (0+ / 0-)

                ... if you could cite the Obama campaign actually stating opposition to anything.

                Mark Brewer is the best you can do, and this Detroit News article contradicts Brewer:

                A statement from the Obama campaign, however, suggested Brewer overstated its position. While the campaign is adamant that results from the Jan. 15 primary must not be recognized -- Obama had his name stricken from the ballot, to protest the unauthorized early primary -- it is open to a "fair solution."

                "Our campaign will support whatever the DNC rules are, including a fair remedy to this problem," Obama spokeswoman Amy Brundage said. "However, allowing Sen. Clinton to change the rules and award her the nonexistent delegates when there was no campaign in the state and Obama's name was not on the ballot is not the answer. Whatever the resolution, we are looking forward to building a winning campaign in Michigan in the general election."

              •  But this would be a firehouse caucus (0+ / 0-)

                much closer to a primary than a caucus.  

                As for Carville---since when did he have the authority to offer $15 million from Clinton's warchest?  If Clinton's campaign offers it, I would hope Obama would match it in a heartbeat.  The issue would then be off the table, Clinton would probably take Florida and lose Michigan, the delegate margin would be nominal, and the $15 million would be alot more of her warchest than his.  I would be all for it---and Clinton might get a positive response from the Obama campaign if they officially offered the proposal.

                •  I don't understand why Obama opposes the (0+ / 0-)

                  firehouse primary.  I don't think that Hillary would, but I can't speak for her.

                  Carville did not suggest paying for it out of the campaign's coffers.  What he suggested was raising soft money to pay for it.

                  Together, we will turn promises into action, words into solutions and hope into reality.

                  by psychodrew on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 11:28:49 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Obama's opposition to Granholm's proposal... (0+ / 0-)

                    ... might have something to do with disenfranchising 9 to 5 workers.

                    •  Would it the polls be open on weekends? (0+ / 0-)

                      Granholm had suggested a "firehouse primary," which would allow Democrats to cast their ballots again sometime before June. It would cost about $10 million.

                      It would be the same procedure Democrats have used in past Michigan presidential caucuses. Polls would be open from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m., and any eligible voter who hadn't voted in the state's Jan. 15 Republican primary could participate. The voter must be a citizen who turns 18 by the November election and declares himself or herself a Democrat for the day.

                      The article is not clear on this.  This is the procedure they've used in the past.

                      Maybe Obama is opposed because Republican voters would be excluded?  That would hurt him.

                      Together, we will turn promises into action, words into solutions and hope into reality. Hillary Clinton for President

                      by psychodrew on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 03:08:13 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Let me know when you find out... (0+ / 0-)

                        ... if the primary will be held on a weekend.

                        And let me know when you can cite someone actually in Obama's campaign saying that he has an objection to re-doing the MI and FL primaries.

                        I have yet to find a story citing anyone other than Granholm's party secretary about that, or citing the Obama campaign saying anything other than "We'll be happy with whatever the DNC approves."

                        Oh, and let me know when that dead horse you keep beating moves.

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