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View Diary: Obama is our savior - Clinton is evil (232 comments)

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  •  Everyone has a personal lens (0+ / 0-)

    My hot buttons are lying, sexism and anti-gay bigotry. I can support a candidate like that no matter what their policy positions.

    In fact, I'd say that is exactly why I have never voted for republican in my life. I won't align myself with a party that tolerates that.

    I've been a democrat for 30 yrs, but if Obama is our candidate the party has left me and I will become an indie and only vote for candidates I truly believe in rather than just dems in general.

    •  those are my hot buttons too (0+ / 0-)

      add racism and that is why i don't support hillary.

      •  You think Hillary is a racist? (0+ / 0-)

        Sorry, I just don't see anything to support that, and never had not in 15 yrs of watching them in politics. In fact I think they have been leaders against racism.

        •  i don't think she is a racist (0+ / 0-)

          i do thing she uses race in the negative and gender in the positive to get votes.  But then you probably feel the same about obama (or you may think he is actually a sexist misogynist, which i don't see any basis for).  again, we are at an impasse.  we see the same set of facts differently.

          •  I do think he is sexist (0+ / 0-)

            I see it in his dimissive demeanor and the arrogant attitude he has toward her, coupled with several comments he has made. Maybe he would be that way against and opponent, but from where I sit he looks sexist.

            •  if you think he is a sexist (0+ / 0-)

              then you are really just looking for ways to dislike him.  i would think you would be appalled if someone thought hillary was racist because of the way she sits next to him at the debates with a look of utter hate behind a forced smile during the debates.  he may not like her, but not liking hillary clinton does not automatically make someone sexist.  and by that token, she may not like him, but not liking barack doesn't automatically make you a racist.

              •  It's fairly down the list... (0+ / 0-)

                ...of why I find him an unattractive choice for our party. I should offer the disclaimer that I actually have friends that worked in the Clinton administration, and I found it extremely, extremly off-putting when Obama characterized her work as first lady as merely having tea with diplomats. He's knows better (and so do I based on those relationships).

                She was, I believe, very deeply involved in policy decisions. Moreso than any first lady this country has ever seen, including Eleanor Roosevelt. For him to suggest otherwise, when I believe he knows better, is extremely sexist. He ought to be evolved enough to give credit where it is due in that regard, but apparently he is not based on his statements.

    •  Here's my reply to hn. I wanted you to see it. (0+ / 0-)

      I am 100% with you.  

      For me the tipping point was South Carolina.   My motivation and bias is that I've been around a long time, and I've seen real racism.   Not just in people's words, but in the lives that black people lead in this country.   I've seen the ghetto right actoss Highway 101  (SF Bay Area) that exists because white landlords STILL (2008) won't rent to blacks.  

      And I remember the Clinton campaign and presidency like it was yesterday.   And anyone can tell you -- ask Andrew Young, for example, MLK's lieutinant who recently quipped that Bill Clinton has slept with more black women than Obama has -- that the Clintons are NOT racist.

      In SC all Bill said, to start out, was that Hillary would lose there (setting expectations, like any campaign will do) and the reason will be the African-American vote.  a) that's obvious; b) they'd just come down from New Hampshire where everyone said it was "the woman vote" and the "crying jag" that put Hillary over the top there.  But did the Clinton's cry "gender card"?  No they did not.  But Obama cried race card.

      I've been around long enough to know racism when I see it, and to know a dirty political trick  when I see one.   And what Obama did to the Clintons was a dirty political trick.   For more on Obama's explicit race strategy, see this article by Sean Wilenz in The New Republic, called "Race Man":  

      http://www.tnr.com/...

      •  Thanks - I appreciated your comments (0+ / 0-)

        Well said.

      •  i read wilenz (0+ / 0-)

        i don't agree with him.  the way i see the facts is that they tried to make obama the black candidate.  my tipping point was when bill compared obama to jesse jackson.  that was clearly a way to belittle him as the black candidate.  they were playing a dirty political trick with race.  not obama.  again, same set of facts, but viewed differently.

        •  How is it belittling to compare him... (0+ / 0-)

          .. to Jesse Jackson? What did Clinton say that could be construed as belittling, exactly?

          And it seemed to be that Obama went out of his way to make himself the black candidate, particularly in SC. That is where he held "gospel concert" rallies with all black audiences, and also where he pandered to black religious homophobes with McClurkin, a very popular figure to religious blacks. My goodness, he has Oprah verifying that he was black enough.

          All Bill Clinton was saying was that it was expected that blacks in SC would vote for Obama, just as they had for Jackson. It's called setting expectations, and all politicians do it.

          •  hopeless (0+ / 0-)

            clinton knew exactly what he was doing by invoking jackson and it was not to simply lower expectations.  lowering expectations is, he spent more, she didn't campaign there, etc.  not don't take him seriously, he's just another jesse jackson. he was framing him as the black candidate that should not be considered a serious candidate and that any wins could be chalked up to the the black vote.  you obviously don't see it this way, and i obviously don't see it yours so not much more to talk about.  

            •  You're right - I don't see it that way (0+ / 0-)

              Here is Clinton's quote:

              "Jesse Jackson won South Carolina in '84 and '88. Jackson ran a good campaign.  And Obama ran a good campaign here."

              That is the full quote. He was framing him as a black candidate that ran a good campaign and captured the black vote, which is why he won SC. Nothing there at all about not taking him seriously. That is made up from whole cloth in your mind.

              91% of the black vote is going to Obama. Is it a mystery that a black candidate captures black voters? He's setting the expectation that Obama will do well with black voters.

              •  exactly (0+ / 0-)

                he wanted to frame him as the black candidate like jesse jackson.  you can't tell me that mainstream americans see or saw jesse jackson as a serious candidate for president. jackson is and has always been seen as a peripheral player in the democratic party.  

                also, in november of 2007, clinton was winning the black vote in SC.  why did they turn? it was never a sure thing that the black vote would go to barack.  if anything, the clintons were very secure with their black support.  could it be that the reason black voters left the clinton camp was becuase of clinton's race baiting.  I don't doubt one reason for his support is black pride, but i do think the clintons did a lot to alienate black voters.

                you say i made this up from whole cloth.  there are many people who saw right through this.  just because you refuse to doesn't mean it's not there.

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