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View Diary: A Florida compromise proposal you haven't seen before (42 comments)

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  •  no revote. no revote. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    groggy, TLS66, Samwoman, erin r, Anarchofascist

    It's a scam and a sham designed to help her.  She couldn't give a rip about the "people of Florida" and curiously enough she didn't sweat about their "disenfranchisement" until it became obvious that she needed their votes to play catchup.  The rules at the outset were that the votes in 48 states would determine the pledged delegates.  A revote unfairly disadvantages Obama, unfairly weights the votes of Florida and Michigan, doesn't take into account the people who crossed over to vote Republican because they could not cast a meaningful Democratic ballot, drags this abortion of a Hillary campaign out even longer, and is ripe for fraud and Republican gaming.  There's a reason why the Republicans in Florida are helping Hillary in her quest, and it ain't because they're concerned about voter "disenfranchisement."  

    It's all part of her plot to steal this.  What I don't understand is why any Obama supporter supports it.

    •  There needs to be a re-vote. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Seneca Doane

      I don't want there be any complaining about the legitimacy of our nominee. As things are right now, Clinton supporters would still charge that they were cheated, that Florida/Michigan were disenfranchised, that the process is undemocratic, and so on.

      If Florida is her ace-in-the-hole, then let her give it her best shot. She'll win Florida, but certainly not by that same huge margin, and it won't be enough to overtake Obama. He can offset her gains with wins in states like Indiana and especially North Carolina.

      If Obama's the nominee, I sense that Clinton supporters will be more at peace (and less divisive) knowing there are no nagging "what-ifs." We need this to happen for Obama's legitimacy.

      "I told them on Inauguration Day. I said look into my eyes: no new enhancements." - President Johnny Gentle (Famous Crooner)

      by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 09:57:17 PM PDT

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      •  If cost, legality, and practicality were not (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Nova Land, Mia Dolan

        at issue, I'd certainly agree with you.  I argued for a mail ballot on Open Left before the idea had otherwise been broached, so far as I can tell.  But the anti-revote position of the (pro-Clinton) Florida Democratic delegation carries a lot of weight, and I'm not sure that a first-time mail-in ballot will confer the legitimacy that we want anyway.  And then there's the cost, which is worth it if we're buying something, but not worth it if we're buying nothing.

        If we take Florida's institutional Democrats at their word, they don't want a revote, and I'm ready to defer to them.  In that case, the disagreement should be over whether there should be a penalty, and I think that there's substantial consensus that the sort of penalty the Republicans imposed was roughly fair.  A penalty that still allows them to seat a full delegation seems more palatable.  Either way, it needs to be over soon.

        Before we can repair the Constitution, we must remind everyone daily that it is broken.

        by Seneca Doane on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 10:02:39 PM PDT

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        •  they don't want a re-vote, because... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Seneca Doane

          they want the delegates seated as is, which ain't gonna happen. It's my gut feeling that they're putting on a show for their constituents while knowing that it will have no effect...they have no actual authority over whether the re-vote happens. When the DNC simply ignores them, they can say, "Well, we tried!"

          I also sense that perhaps they're nervous about a first-time mail-in election, and have decided to bet the house on the earlier primary results.

          "I told them on Inauguration Day. I said look into my eyes: no new enhancements." - President Johnny Gentle (Famous Crooner)

          by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 10:34:50 PM PDT

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          •  I share both feelings -- but (0+ / 0-)

            if that's true -- and certainly there is grounds for them to be nervous -- and if the re-vote doesn't happen, the question arises as to what to do then.  I think that the plan I offer has elements to satisfy the legitimate interests of both sides, and as such can be the basis for an imposed compromise that feels fair.

            Before we can repair the Constitution, we must remind everyone daily that it is broken.

            by Seneca Doane on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:10:23 PM PDT

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          •  Plus (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Seneca Doane

            allowing a revote without any other consequences will mean that the Florida Dem Party will not have been punished for its behavior.  The Florida Republican Party was punished for its behavior (stripped of half its delegates), why should the Fla Dem Party get off with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

    •  It's in the interest of peace (0+ / 0-)

      If Obama wins despite seating Florida -- and I think he does -- I'm not inclined to pursue anything beyond a 50% penalty.  But yes, the Republican gaming of the primary is another good reason to cut this short along the lines I suggest above.

      As for why an Obama supporter would support it, wanting to have a fair system is one reason.  I think Obama wins regardless; I simply want peace quickly and securely.

      Before we can repair the Constitution, we must remind everyone daily that it is broken.

      by Seneca Doane on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 10:05:19 PM PDT

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      •  I don't believe the Repubs (0+ / 0-)

        gamed it by themselves.
        FL Senate 37-2, House 118-0.

        Florida legislature vote on primary see mid-page

        •  That wasn't what the post addressed (0+ / 0-)

          The problem with any revote now is that with McCain having sewn up his nomination Republicans have hit on the idea that Markos tried back in Michigan: voting en masse for the weaker candidate, even though they don't like her.  Hence the exit polls in Mississippi showing that a good portion of her supporters were Republicans who don't like her.  That is the "gaming" we'd fear seeing in a revote.

          Before we can repair the Constitution, we must remind everyone daily that it is broken.

          by Seneca Doane on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:54:16 PM PDT

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          •  Oops, my mistake. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Seneca Doane

            I have seen a lot over the past couple of months saying the FL Repubs stuck it to the Dems because they have a legislative majority, that's the "gaming" I misread ( speed reading doesn't work for me, particularly this late ).

            I get what you are saying, the longer this goes on the more polluted it will become with GOP voters crossing over per Rush.

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