Skip to main content

View Diary: Now It's War: Superdelegates Take Note (92 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Erch. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    taylormattd, trashablanca

    There are things that matter more than "winning."

    No, there aren't.

    I am a well off middle aged white man.

    Good for you. So please consider that you're never going to need an abortion.

    I think what Hillary is doing is horrendous. Inexcusable, in fact. But if she's the nominee, I'm going to hold my nose, pull the lever, and go get drunk. And yes, I know, part of why she's doing the vomit-inducing things she's doing is precisely because she's counting on people doing just that.

    Ils n'ont rien appris, ni rien oublié. - Talleyrand

    by MBNYC on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:33:59 AM PDT

    •  Many people believe that for the good of the (9+ / 0-)

      party and for the future it is a necessity NOT to vote for Clinton.

      Change won't occur if we accept anything they throw at us. There has a be a price paid.

      Its the delegates that count

      by Morgan Sandlin on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:40:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The good of the party? (10+ / 0-)

        What good is a party that is racist? I am a staunch Democrat, but I will never support a party that would select someone who won less states, less delegates and less votes just because that candidate is willing to go so dirty as to say that people are only voting for him because he is black.

        Every single diary on this site should be very clear. She needs to stop what she is doing. The damage is already irreparable, and it was unnecessary: solely the product of a dishonest and dirty campaign.

        "Senator, you are now campaigning as if Barack Obama were the Democrat and you are the Republican." -Kieth Olbermann

        by smckenzie23 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:47:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Supreme Court Justice (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        taylormattd, trashablanca, EthrDemon

        John Yoo thanks you in advance.

        Ils n'ont rien appris, ni rien oublié. - Talleyrand

        by MBNYC on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:56:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Don't thank me..Thank Hillary. (4+ / 0-)

          Thank her candidacy and its reprehensible tactics, thank her supporters who accepted this sort of candidacy.

          If Hillary gets the nomination I'll be working to regain the presidency in four years because she won't defeat McCain.

          Its the delegates that count

          by Morgan Sandlin on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:58:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Do you even get (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            taylormattd, trashablanca

            that what she's doing fills me with nausea, or is this like, I dunno, an anger contest?

            If Hillary gets the nomination I'll be working to regain the presidency in four years because she won't defeat McCain.

            Not with the short-sighted attitude of some people, correct. Meanwhile, please explain to any rational human being how McCain is better than Hillary, because hat's the crux of everything you're saying here.

            Ils n'ont rien appris, ni rien oublié. - Talleyrand

            by MBNYC on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:03:21 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  He doesn't destroy the democratic brand (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Morgan Sandlin, Little Flower

              McCain and his disasters will be charged to the republican brand. Hillary's scandals, lies and failures will be democratic failures.

              I still think Obama will win the nomination in 2008 and we won't face this problem. But if Hillary somehow steals it, then maybe the true democratic renewal in this country won't come for four more years.

              •  Nonsense. (0+ / 0-)

                They have almost exactly the same voting record. I repeat: I hate what she's doing right now. But I hate the idea of John McCain staffing the Federal government and filling judicial nominations even more. If he gets elected, we'll have a rightwing majority on the Supreme Court for a generation. If you feel your sense of outrage is worth the country enduring that, fine.

                As to brand value, if brand R can somehow survive eight years of Bush, brand D can survive Hillary.

                This is a Democratic blog, a partisan blog. It's a Democratic blog with one goal in mind: electoral victory. - FAQ

                by MBNYC on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:57:31 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  The diarist did not say he wouldn't vote (9+ / 0-)

      for all Democrats, just Hillary. John McCain cannot by himself overturn Roe v Wade.

      •  True, but that would require the Dems that DO (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        geomoo

        get elected, to have a damn backbone and block his Supreme Court choices that aren't pro-choice. What's the likelihood of THAT happening?

        If you do not tell the truth about yourself you cannot tell it about other people. ~Virginia Woolf

        by Muzikal203 on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:54:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  he can, however, pack the supreme court (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        trashablanca, MBNYC

        with scalia clones...

        as much as i'm coming to despise hillary clinton, i live in a swing state and will pull the lever for the democrat, full stop.

        i won't vote for clinton in november because she won't be on the ballot...simple!

        by memofromturner on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:56:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I understand the logic and self-preservation (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          redtex

          in what you're saying.  I have always argued that way, including vehemently with my friends in 2000.  I'm amazed that this year the behavior of Hillary has brought me to exactly the same place as the diarist.  I could never vote for McCain, and now I don't think I could vote for Hillary.  There's some behavior that just cannot be overlooked.

          In this contest, we should be celebrating the gains of the Democratic Party in civil right and women's rights.  The country is ready for it and it would have been a feel-good deal when the country sorely needs it.  Thanks to the Hillary campaign and the media, we're being asked to go back to 1950 and be as racist as we can bring ourselves to be.  Not to mention that her whining victimization act completely neutralizes any chance to celebrate the emergence of strong women into acceptance.  This is a cynical subversion of fundamental and longstanding causes of the Democratic Party.  And this will not stand.  This is not my Democratic Party, and I won't pretend it is.

          And if I feel this way, what do you suppose is going on in the minds of people who are involved solely because of Obama?  Or the AA who will see this as just more proof that they will never get a fair shake in America?

          I don't have a good response to your Supreme Court argument, I admit.  But right now I can't bring myself to say anything other than screw Hillary, the complicit democratic party, and the SC.  After 8 years of sneering humiliation from the neocons, I'm simply unable to bear the same treatment from withing the Party.  And after seeing this behavior, I have serious doubts whether she would offer much different than the corporate-friendly agenda of McCain.

          The only frame change that matters: the corporate media = propaganda machine. Americans must find their news elsewhere.

          by geomoo on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:48:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  No he cannot, not by himself. (0+ / 0-)
      •  Yes he can. actually. (0+ / 0-)

        One more rightwing Supreme Court justice and Roe, along with a lot of other decisions that you've never even heard of, is done. Start with Griswold, which allows you to buy contraceptives.

        How awesome and insightful you are.

        This is a Democratic blog, a partisan blog. It's a Democratic blog with one goal in mind: electoral victory. - FAQ

        by MBNYC on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:00:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I guess you have less self-respect than I do. (6+ / 0-)

      After all Hillary's "Bill-Shit" I can never bring myself to vote for her. I, of course, can never vote Repug either, so I may vote Green Party or Nadar. I will still support my local Democrats unless they, as superdelegates, improperly give the nomination to Hillary in which case I vote for a non-Repug candidate.

      If a Repug gets elected so be it.  At least, I will have not voted for them and will still respect myself for not voting for someone I personally consider not worthy of my vote.

      •  Awesome. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        taylormattd, pico

        My comment, on a web site dedicated to electing Democrats, gets zero recs for saying I'm going to vote for the Democrat.

        I may vote Green Party or Nadar

        ...gets, at this writing, four.

        I guess you have less self-respect than I do.

        Yes, that must be it. Or maybe I have a clue and you don't; that's another option.

        Ils n'ont rien appris, ni rien oublié. - Talleyrand

        by MBNYC on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:59:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The site dynamic has definitely changed, (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          taylormattd, MBNYC, geomoo

          to a noticeable degree.  But I think part of that has to do with the level-headed people no longer bothering with diaries like this in the first place.

          Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

          by pico on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:08:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  We not for electing all Democrats no matter what, (0+ / 0-)

          rather only those worthy of our vote. That is, of course, the purpose of a democracy.

          •  Actually, no. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            taylormattd

            The purpose of this site is to elect Democrats. Period. That's because 'worthy' is in the eye of the beholder.

            Eh, why do I even bother?

            Ils n'ont rien appris, ni rien oublié. - Talleyrand

            by MBNYC on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:13:31 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I hear you NBNYC, but things change. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Templar

              I have been loyal to this purpose, I like to think.  But if Hillary's version of the Democratic Party is allowed to stand, then it will no longer be my party. I haven't even begun to try to work out what that would mean for my participation in this beloved site.

              I think the point is that things are reaching a point that your unassailable logic and accurate claims will be no match to the emotional backlash the party will face if Hillary's way prevails.  I'm not happy about that. I'm not throwing it in your face as a threat.  I'm amazed at my own strong feelings, which may calm down.  I'm just saying that I think this is a dynamic, and fine logic will not be enough to put a lid on it.

              Incidentally, lest you become too disheartened, I think Pico is exactly correct in his point above about who comes to these diaries.

              The only frame change that matters: the corporate media = propaganda machine. Americans must find their news elsewhere.

              by geomoo on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:54:01 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Exactly. So many here see (D) and (R) as race... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sqz23

            As though you're born (D) or born (R) and it's us against them and the party affiliation isn't a matter of behavior or of values, but simply biology or something.

            Listen, I will not vote for a dishonest, racist, warmongering, corporatist (D). I don't care that they're a (D). I don't care that an (R) may win. Hell, if the (R) is non-racist, pacifist, and socialist, I'll vote for the god damned (R) without a second thought!

            These labels have somehow become more important than actions and record. It's become (D)s vote for (D)s regardless and (R)s vote for (R)s regardless, like a surrogate form of nationalism and a surrogate form of ethnic war. Well party affiliation is not ethnicity and I couldn't give less of a shit whether the people in office are (D) or (R) so long as they aren't criminals, war or race or otherwise.

            -9.63, 0.00
            Anti-groupthink is the groupthink of the anti-groupthink group.

            by nobody at all on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:24:07 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  And for this reason, should the Super-shits (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              geomoo

              steal the nomination for Hillary, I will change my lifelong registration from (D) to (I) and will vote on candidate by candidate in the future.

              When I hear leading Democrats proclaim that "impeachment is off the table" and see their "Repug-like" votes, I'm not sure what little remaining constitutional values are left within the party.

              After this election, I may well be seeking another party. One that truly believes in constitutional principles.

        •  not democrats (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Templar, cybrestrike

          this site is, I believe, devoted to promoting progressive policy and leaders. HRC is in no measurable way a better potential president than McCain. It's that simple. She has reduced herself to a racist cracker. And I can't vote for her.

          refuse and resist

          by defndr on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:17:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Or maybe... (0+ / 0-)

          ...it was this:

          Good for you. So please consider that you're never going to need an abortion.

          So STFU, Mr. Man - hold your nose and vote based on the one issue that I consider most important!

          The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, while the pessimist fears this is true. - James Branch Cabell

          by NessMonster on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:38:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  The integrity of voting matters too (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Templar

          I would vote for Hillary if she won the nomination fair and square -- with disgust, but I would cast my vote -- but if she steals the nomination via Florida and Michigan and who knows how else -- I couldn't vote for her because I'd be validating an electoral coup.

          At least John McCain played by the rules of his party and won his nomination fairly.

    •  I wouldn't trust clinton to even put forth.... (5+ / 0-)

      a candidate for Supreme Court that would be liberal.  She'd be just like her husband and give in to the republicans.

    •  She is not running for 2008 anymore (8+ / 0-)

      She is running for 2012... It is pretty clear to her and most everybody else that she cannot get the nomination this year.  What she can do though is poison the well so that Obama can't get elected either, thus giving her a chance for 2012.

      don't respond to the lies... put two bits in your Obama jar and spite them with his fund raising!

      by Libesatva on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:52:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm With You (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MBNYC

      And in that [unlikely] event, I will be at my polling place handing out clothespins to my neighbors.

      This aggression will not stand, man.

      by kaleidescope on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:04:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm never going to need an abortion either. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cybrestrike

      I guess Hillary supporters had better find something better to scare us with if they want to get us to vote for her. Maybe tell her to behave, since half of the population is never going to need an abortion and thus can't be scared into voting for her no matter what purely on that basis alone?

      Huh? Make any sense?

      -9.63, 0.00
      Anti-groupthink is the groupthink of the anti-groupthink group.

      by nobody at all on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:16:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  so (0+ / 0-)

        abortion rights is not worth fighting for anymore to you Obama fans, is it?

        •  Not at the expense of every single other issue on (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          redtex

          earth. You abortion rights people seem to be saying:

          -War is okay
          -Racism is okay
          -Union busting is okay
          -Dishonesty is okay
          -Ending the rule of law is okay

          NOTHING MATTERS AS LONG AS I HAVE MY ABORTIONS LALALALALALALALALA! (fingers in ears)

          Well for some of us Abortion rights is one small issue in the midst of a big mess of other issues. Clinton loses on every single other issue. She has one issue and one demographic: abortions and white women.

          And for abortions and white women we are supposed to throw under the bus:

          -The poor
          -Minorities
          -Future generations
          -The third world
          -The working class
          etc. etc. etc.

          Well fuck that, if it comes time to choose, no, abortion is not worth fighting for if it comes down to choosing between the whole pile of things in column (A) and "abortion rights" alone, all by itself in column (B).

          Maybe that's a non-white-woman perspective, but then I'm not white and I'm not a woman, so sue me. You want us along? Figure out a way to get someone into the nomination that we can support.

          -9.63, 0.00
          Anti-groupthink is the groupthink of the anti-groupthink group.

          by nobody at all on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:49:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Wow. (0+ / 0-)

            Because the right to choose - and other SCOTUS jurisprudence like Brown v. Board, say - only benefits white women, right?

            Eh, why do I even bother?

            This is a Democratic blog, a partisan blog. It's a Democratic blog with one goal in mind: electoral victory. - FAQ

            by MBNYC on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:04:17 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site