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View Diary: Obama's Anti-American Pastor Story Is NOT Going Away (443 comments)

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  •  and your point is.... n/t (0+ / 0-)

    ....and an "eye of the beholder" to you too.

    by leftbird on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:33:33 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  You are arrogant and full of shit. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Shahryar

      Maybe you should make your arguments without presuming that you speak for what "most Americans" think.

    •  That his EX-pastor (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eternal Hope

      speaking about the inversion of justice for black Americans also inverts the God Bless America slogan into God Damned America pretty easily.  Especially in a congregation who is there to specifically hear the fire of righteous indignation from Wright.

      Now, I would't say things the way he does, though I feel his points have validity, here.

      On the soundbite, Obama has consistently distanced himself from any associations to people he's known or may in some way be involved with his campaign.  None of his actions speak to the soundbite taken-out-of-context.

      Further, when confronted with these issues, Obama has thus far been an excellent contextualizer.  Not only has he distanced himself and his campaign from Wright's more fiery rhetoric for over a year, but such issues have simply caused him to address the media complaint head-on, turn it into nothing and move onto policy or similar issues.  It's generally been effective, but seriously: his campaign would be foolish to show their entire defensive arsenal to the Republicans in the primary.  His current tactics were not enough to fully brunt the faux NAFTA-gate charges by Clinton in time for them not to do some damage, but it's gone now.  He let Clinton's campaign do themselves in, essentially.

      For this, best to wait for a real issue to be raised in Clinton's camp before responding in his usual, deprecating manner for such insults - otherwise, he'll just be adding attention to something that could otherwise die out.

      And, when the Republicans throw this and MUCH MORE during the GE his way, there will be no limiters on his campaign or his supporters to go all-out and crush the vapidity to the extent that's possible, while countering on policy issues that will literally cripple McCain's hope of being elected in his lifetime.

      "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

      by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:44:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Good gravy (0+ / 0-)

        some bad edits, there.

        I'm going out to get my spouse's daily morning coffee, hopefully experience some relief for this head cold.

        "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

        by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 07:49:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You need to consolidate this.... (0+ / 0-)

        the media only has so much time for talking points.

        ....and an "eye of the beholder" to you too.

        by leftbird on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:01:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Your "concern" is noted. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          theran, wader

          We will take it up as soon as you address Hillary's association with The Fellowship.

          •  White churches don't need to be explained (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Eternal Hope

            Until today, I didn't realize that black churches got special treatment.  We Jews miss the subtle points sometimes.

            Ortiz/Ramírez '08

            by theran on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:09:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Er, what? (0+ / 0-)

              Most of the race-biased, dominionist, law-ignoring, women-hating, gay-bashing quotes I've seen have come from "white" churches.

              You can soundbite anybody.  So . . .

              I guess we all should cower in fear of uppity black men in church without understanding a thing about people here waving a soundbite over their head like it's a grenade?

              That's my point.

              In the GE:

              If someone wants to say, "He's damning the US of A!  Must be a Communist or something!" and actually believe it without caring to listen further, then we're probably dealing with someone who will accept any smear the McCain side dishes out.

              On the other hand, if Obama simply comes out and REPEATS his usual disavowment of anything that Wright says which doesn't fit with his campaign or personal beliefs . . . then, the thinking people can forget and move on as he quickly sidles back into policy attacks and proposals.  Which is how he usually handles this sort of thing, apparentyly.

              In either case, should we be wringing our hands desperately, now?

              Back to DKos:

              My post above is meant to exploit the blog environment - i.e, share context so that we can do so with others.  Because, we're not Obama strategists.  We don't advise his campaign.  We can only communicate with each other and our friends, associates, etc.

              So, propping up context-free soundbites as somehow meaningful points of discussion seems counterproductive.  Unless wringing our hands is a productive exercise.

              "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

              by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:21:53 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That was my point (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Eternal Hope, wader

                Most of the race-biased, dominionist, law-ignoring, women-hating, gay-bashing quotes I've seen have come from "white" churches.

                Indeed.  Any nobody ever says anything about it.  It's like churches can say any wacky thing, but since they are churches, pushing back hard is not allowed in our political discourse.  

                As a non-Christian, I've gotten used to it, but find it bizarre.

                Now along comes a pastor from a black church saying pretty standard stuff.  And posters here are alternately flipping out and clutching their pearls in horror.  From this I conclude that only white churches get a free pass.

                Ortiz/Ramírez '08

                by theran on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:25:31 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Well, what do you expect? (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                theran, wader

                Does it surprise you that the media would pull this crap on the man who knew all along that they were full of shit on Iraq?

        •  Great idea, this is a chance for you (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Eternal Hope

          to actually say something constructive in this thread, for a change.

          Rather than just waving around a quote like it was about to explode.

          "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

          by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 08:23:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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