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View Diary: Ahnold the Liernator (118 comments)

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  •  Oh, for fuck's sake (4.00)
    Thank you moon-in-the-house for asking a real question.  C'mon, everyone else who's talking up this Arnold flap:  Is this the best we have?  Is it really worthy of discussion?  I hate the Republicans with a passion bordering on rabidity, but seriously, who gives a fuck whether Arnold said he followed the Nixon/Humphrey 'race' on TV?  Maybe he did.  

    During a single Bush term the GOP has perpetrated enough blatantly egregious EVIL to last us a century.  They've been aided and abetted by a sycophantic media that lives on its knees.  We've vastly more important things to do than to twist Arnold's words in hopes that they might eventually resemble some picayune falsehood.  

    When people call for Dems to "go on the attack", they're not talking about rubber bands and spitwads.  This kind of pathetic grasping-at-straws crap just makes us look desperate, and it's about as necessary as hoarding water during a Biblical flood.  Please get this OFF the front page.  Markos doesn't make many missteps, but devoting screen space to this is one of 'em.

    •  Thank You! (4.00)
      Talking points should be:

      1.  Too bad the governor's message for hope for immigrants is belied by his anti-immigrant policies in California.

      2.  Too bad the governor's message for equal opportunity is marred by his patter of sexually harassing women and treating them as second class citizens.

      3.  Too bad that the governor's message to "suck it up" only applies to the jobless and those impacted by the President's giantic tax giveaways to the wealthiest Americans who donate to his campaign.

      Unfortunatley, the Governor's speech was a high-gloss, no substance show -- much like in his previous career.

      Etc. etc.

    •  Your right, it's petty and stupid (none)
      The problem is if Kerry had claimed to watch the Nixon-Humphrey debates that never occured, and even gave details like Arnold did, the press would be screaming about it on every front page and it would lead every talk show and newscast.  

      The point is they lie.  Not only do they lie when they need to, they lie when they don't.  It's like  intuition when your name is followed by an "R".

      This belongs on the front page.  When they lie about where they were in 1968, call them on it.  When they lie about why they fell of  a bike, call  them on it.  Put every single falsehood they utter in their face until the damn press starts calling on them too, or the lies come to an end.  

      They lie because you let them get away with it.

      •  yep (none)
        We need to go after these guys on all fronts. That's what the republicans do--they hit everything to see what sticks. We should do the same, and we have this great built-in-advantage in that we don't lie.  

        We should never shy away from pointing stuff like this out.

        •  Sure, (none)
          "Attack on all fronts" sounds great, but what does it really mean?  Mindlessly gainsaying your opponents' every utterance?  Better to pick your battles and make sure you've got your facts straight first so you don't have to write stuff like this:

          Correction, Sept. 1, 2004: I [Will Saletan] initially wrote that Schwarzenegger described the Humphrey-Nixon exchange as a debate. I misunderstood him. There were no debates in that campaign. He was talking about watching both candidates and comparing their positions.

          If you want to go after Arnold, rebut the substance of his arguments.

    •  Hell yeah! Take the high road! (3.50)
      I remember how focusing on this kind of thing backfired on the GOP in 2000.  Can you imagine that they thought they could get Bush into the White House by plugging away with manufactured crap about love story, invented the internet, love canal, the dog's medicine, the student's desk, and look for the union label?  Thank God Al Gore took the high road!  Imagine what the world would be like with Bush in the White House!
      •  Nice sarcasm (none)
        ...and I perfectly understand where it's coming from.  What I don't understand is your proposed alternative: do you also want Dems to start cynically twisting innocuous GOP comments into 'manufactured crap'?  

        What I'm saying is, if you're going to seize on something like this, make sure it's A) damaging to Kerry and B) actually a lie.  Read the Arnold quote again.  He followed the Nixon/Humphrey presidential race on TV.  His conclusion? "Humphrey's a socialist; I love Nixon!"  

        Well, there was such a campaign.  There was a clash of opposing ideas--if not an actual debate, then certainly a virtual one.  Arnold picked the wrong side, of course, and you can argue with his disparagement of Humphrey, but his account of the events themselves is plausible.
        People are carrying on as though he had ensnared himself in some malicious lie.  He hasn't (not that you can prove, at least--I do have my doubts about how politically involved Arnold really was at that time.)

        Ultimately, what does it matter?  Let the GOP turn their convention into a Richard Nixon love-fest! How does this hurt Kerry?  If you're going to take the low road, hit them hard where it hurts, and make it count.  This stuff is little-league garbage.

    •  Sure, as if one of the first things (none)
      a 21 year old new immigrant in search of fame and fortune in the world of body building does is get a translator to sit down with him so that he can follow the presidential campaign.  Maybe a mature person who is political refugee would do that.  But somehow the notion that a 21 year old who was busy pumping iron, scoring steriods and other drugs and prowling for sex is not only laughable but ludicrous.  

      Maybe we could put together the SBB (Swarz Bodybuilder Buddies) for truth who will tell us what really happened in 1968 and subsequent years.  Make Arnold defend his record and prove that he isn't lying.  

      •  Arrgh. (none)
        Yes, the idea of Young Arnold's trenchant political awareness strains credulity.  The problem is, you can't prove it.  You can't even really talk about it without shooting yourself in the foot.  Let's imagine how the Kerry campaign might pursue this:

        JOHN KERRY (or surrogate): "Arnold's full of crap, pretending he cared about politics in 1968.  We all know twenty-somethings were and are a bunch of apathetic narcissists."

        Yep, real solid gold voter outreach material, there.  Maybe MTV can run it on Rock the Vote.  

        Maybe we could put together the SBB (Swarz Bodybuilder Buddies) for truth who will tell us what really happened in 1968 and subsequent years.  Make Arnold defend his record and prove that he isn't lying.

        Remind me again, how much did focusing on Arnold's checkered past help us CA Dems in the recall fight?  For better or worse, people today see a popular movie star and governor--period.  And if you want to go after someone, how about Bush?  Arnold isn't running for president.

        •  ...yet. (none)

          WARNING: When not being directly observed, this post may cease to exist or exist only in a vague and undetermined state.

          by Democarp on Wed Sep 01, 2004 at 01:44:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Wasn't suggesting that the (none)
          Kerry campaign take him on -- in fact that would be a very bad move.

          However, CA DEMs should begin the campaign to unmask this fraud now.  The recall election was done in such a short time frame that it wasn't possible to chip away at his public persona -- the boorish sexual behavior charges were too soon before the election and too weak, but not too soon for Arnold to claim -- I didn't know that women don't like me grabbing their tits and I won't do it again and I'm sorry if anyone misunderstood my behavior.  Kobe took his lead from Arnie and it's worked very well.

          Arnie lies all the time, but unless the public sees this in front of their faces, on the back of their cereal boxes every morning, it's not going to get into their brains by 11/06.  He is a physically repulsive crappy actor who spouts repulsive lines only a simpleton could love.  CA DEMs should stop cowering from the "Terminator," a cartoon action character and not a real man or real leader.

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