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View Diary: FACT: Bush Led Gore By 13 Points in Late October (100 comments)

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  •  Frig off Politizine. (3.66)
    "He voted for the 87 billion before he voted against it?" Don't you know the history of that remark -- it was a completely different bill Kerry "voted for" before he "voted against" the final version, and "voting against" the deficit-augmenting final version was in keeping with Kerry's fiscal conservative principles -- he was right.  We should have paid for reconstruction with a tax hike.  Or maybe you don't approve of that sort of thing?  Typical Naderite hypocracy.  It's all about the "issues" that Democrats just won't address -- until you fall right back on the RNC's baby: one dumb comment Kerry made on a campaign stop.  How fucking substantive.  Stop repeating RNC spin-points, asshole.

    You think people are current reconsidering Bush because Kerry is too far right?  That's why Republicans have been pushing this "most liberal senator" bullshit for the past six months.  Or because Kerry voted for the invasion?  Right. Although it does differenciate Kerry from that Great Man of High Principle, Gephardt, who you think would be making Bush "pee his pants" by contrast...  Oh right, but Gep also "voted against trade deals"... the issue the whole electorate is thinking about right now.  Oh, and didn't Gep vote for the WTO too back in '96?  And didn't he flame out in the '88 primary despite his blatantly nationalist-protectionist rhetoric?  Those are rhetorical questions: the answer is yes to both.  Oh, and Dean (the other "piss Bush's pants" candidate) supported NAFTA, the WTO, China (and Biden-Lugar)... in fact Edwards, who's on the ticket was the most anti-trade mainstream Dem in the primary.  And of course never mind of course that many Democrats support trade deals... never mind that the 1999 Cambodia deal has textile workers earning more than civil servants in that country... never mind that Kerry has a big platform on how to enforce and improve our trade deals and has talked anti-outsourcing nonstop... never mind a lot of things.  You're a fucking hypocrite sometimes.  I love how a lot of contrarian lefties love to tell Democrats we're "frigtened liberal" sheeple and then repeat dumb spin-points to us.  Moooooooooo, asshole.  I bet I know just as much, or more, about politics than you as do most people here.  So fuck your goddamned lectures.

    Kerry is down between 2 and 11 (not fifteen) points right now because of the usual tribal/ emotional/ social issues that always cost us (abortion, gay marriage, gun laws) and because Americans have just been forcibly reminded of 911 and Republicans always win on security issues.  Always.  Going back to Eisenhower, maybe back further.  Kerry moving left isn't going to change that -- it'll make it worse.  According to exit polls four years ago, Gore could have won between one half and two million votes on his right by giving up on photo-registration for new handgun purchases -- he didn't.  If he'd dropped Kyoto and promised to deregulate mining in West Virginia like Bush, he could have had that state -- he didn't. And he fucking should have because the consequences of sticking to "principle" have been too great.  Oh yeah, and he should have just sucked it up and told all those enviros in Florida exactly what they wanted to hear, too.  Just lied to them about the Everglades airport development to get their votes.  He should have done it but he didn't.  So please stop lecturing Democrats how we need to haul off to the left and stand up for what you think are our "principles".  It worked less-than-brilliantly when Mondale promised to raise taxes.  It worked less-than-brilliantly when McGovern ran against the Vietnam war.  Kerry will get killed if he changes positions on the war now.

    And to your dumb comment upthread, aren't you the one always arguing that candidates don't "steal" votes from each other?  Do you have so little faith in the free will of Nader-leaning voters that you think partisan Dems can "steal" their votes by telling them things like "hey, Bush is worse than you think?"  Come on: only Nader can defeat Nader.  How can you spoil a dead-in-the-water third-party candidacy that's already spoiled to the core?  Tactics, and fear of consequences, is a perfectly legitimate reason for voting one way or the other, you know.  We don't vote to purify our fucking souls.  Even Saint Ralph admits as much when he was kind enough to remind us Canucks to hold our noses and vote for Paul Martin's Liberals this year to keep the conservatives out.

    I'm in a bad mood, obviously.  But you're trolling trying to get people like me to attack you.  Good job.

    When America uses force in the world, the cause must be just, the goal must be clear and the victory must be overwhelming -- George W. Bush (2000)

    by tlaura on Sun Sep 05, 2004 at 12:31:34 AM PDT

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    •  Too much abuse. (none)

      Politizine: now that I've slept, I must say that would have been a better comment if I'd refrained from calling you an asshole (at least not more than once.)  I still think that was an asshole comment, but it doesn't make you a worthless member of the community IMO.

      When America uses force in the world, the cause must be just, the goal must be clear and the victory must be overwhelming -- George W. Bush (2000)

      by tlaura on Sun Sep 05, 2004 at 11:25:56 AM PDT

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