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View Diary: OPEN THREAD - Charlton Heston has died (288 comments)

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  •  Anyone think... (6+ / 0-)

    Our comments about C.H. will make it on the O'Reilly Factor?  He reads all day so he can bitch and moan...kind of like Bill Maher last night on Realtime.

    •  Oh, screw him... (10+ / 0-)

      ...10 bucks says it's the first thing out of Leno's mouth Monday night...

      Freedom of speech is a bitch, Bill many people in this country are dead because of the organization Mr. Heston championed all these years?

      •  No, just maybe tone it down a little... (4+ / 0-)

        We may not agree with his politics, but we can at least...I don't know...TRY.

      •  Didn't he tear after the victims of Columbine (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Trix, JaciCee, Hedwig

        right after the tragedy? I seem to remember that.

        Take a look at the best Progressive T-Shirts around. Drawn by me! On sale now!

        by The Gryffin on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 09:54:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Was that before or after his Denver rally? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Trix, The Gryffin, Lauren S

          The one the families and community asked him to delay because of the sensitive nature of the situation?

          •  Maybe you should factcheck Michael Moore before (4+ / 0-)

            opening your mouth.

            Practically every event they had planned was canceled.  The only thing they didn't cancel was the voting members' meeting.  Why was this?

            § 605. Notice of meeting of members.
               (a) Whenever under the provisions of this chapter members are required or permitted to take any action at a meeting, written notice shall state the  place, date and hour of the meeting and, unless it is an annual meeting, indicate that it is being issued by or at the direction of the person or persons calling the meeting. Notice of a special meeting shall also state the purpose or purposes for which the meeting is called. A copy of the notice of any meeting shall be given, personally or by mail, to each member entitled to vote at such meeting. If the notice is given personally or by first class mail, it shall be given not less than ten nor more than fifty days before the date of the meeting; if mailed by any other class of mail, it shall be given not less than thirty nor more than sixty days before such date.  If mailed, such notice is given when deposited in the United  States  mail, with postage thereon prepaid, directed to the member at his address as it appears on the record of members, or, if he shall have filed with the secretary of the corporation a written request that notices to him be mailed to some other address, then directed to him at such other address. An affidavit of the secretary or other person giving the notice or of a transfer agent of the corporation that the notice required by this section has been given shall, in the absence of fraud, be prima facie evidence of the facts therein stated. Whenever a corporation has more than five hundred members, the notice may be served by publication, in lieu of mailing, in a newspaper published in the county in the state in  which the  principal office of the corporation is located, once a week for three successive weeks next preceding the date of the meeting.

            Why, what's this?  It's New York state law (the home state of the NRA), detailing that you have to give 10 days notice, and that it can be extraordinarily hard to change such meetings after you've given notice.  The only thing held was a reception and Heston's speech.  But, I'm sure that was pretty hateful, given how Moore presented the speech (and pay attention to the bold, because that's the part Moore doesn't show):

            Good morning.

            I want to welcome you to this abbreviated annual gathering of the National Rifle Association. Thank you for coming and thank you for supporting your organization.

            I also want to applaud your courage in coming here today. Of course, you have a right to be here.

            As you know, we've canceled the festivities and fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands. I apologize for that.

            But it's fitting and proper that we should do this ... because NRA members are, above all, Americans. That means whatever our differences, we are respectful of one another and we stand united, especially in adversity.  Wellington Webb, the mayor of Denver, sent me a message: "Don't come here. We don't want you here."

            I say to the Mayor, "I volunteered for the war they wanted me to attend when I was 18 years old. Since then, I've run small errands for my country from Nigeria to Vietnam." I know many of you could say the same. But the Mayor said, "Don't come."

            I'm sorry for that. I'm sorry for the newspaper ads saying the same thing. "Don't come here." This is our country. As Americans we are free to travel wherever we wish in our broad land. They say we'll create a media distraction. But we were preceded here by hundreds of intrusive news crews.

            They say we'll create political distraction. But it has not been the NRA pressing for political advantage, calling press conferences to propose vast packages of new legislation.

            They say, "Don't come here." I guess what saddens me most is how it suggests complicity. It implies that you and I and eighty million honest gun owners are somehow to blame, that we don't care as much as they, or that we don't deserve to be as shocked and horrified as every other soul in America mourning for the people of Littleton.

            "Don't come here." That's offensive. It's also absurd, because we live here.

            There are thousands of NRA members in Denver and tens upon tens of thousands in the state of Colorado.

            NRA members labor in Denver's factories, populate Denver's faculties, run Denver corporations, play on Colorado sports teams, work in media across the front range, parent and teach and coach Denver's children, attend Denver's churches, and proudly represent Denver in uniform on the world's oceans and in the skies over Kosovo at this very moment.

            NRA members are in City Hall, Fort Carson, NORAD, the Air Force Academy and the Olympic Training Center.

            And yes, NRA members are surely among the police and fire and SWAT team heroes who risked their lives to rescue the students of Columbine from evil, mindless executioners.

            "Don't come here?" We are already here. This community is our home. Every community in America is our home. We are a 128-year-old fixture of mainstream America. The Second Amendment ethic of lawful, responsible firearm ownership spans the broadest cross-section of American life imaginable.

            So we have the same right as all other citizens to be here ... to help shoulder the grief ... to share our sorrow ... and to offer our respectful, reasoned voice to the national discourse that has erupted around this tragedy.

            One more thing. Our words and our behavior will be scrutinized more than ever this morning. Those who are hostile toward us will lie in wait to seize on a soundbite out of context, ever searching for an embarrassing moment to ridicule us. So let us be mindful ... the eyes of the nation are upon us today.

            Wow, upon second review, it doesn't seem that...hateful.  Maybe Moore was being facetious or downright deceptful and lying?  Wait, he wouldn't do that, would he?

            But don't let a little thing like fact get in the way of your spewing hateful nonsense when someone dies.  I wouldn't want to stop your classy gestures, after all.

            Conservative since 1992. Open-minded since birth.

            by ShowMe on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 03:43:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Mayor Wendel begged them not to come... (0+ / 0-)

              Not only did members show up, but due to the recent Columbine shooting many gun wingnuts showed up.

              Were you there?  I was.  It was painful.  Many people suffered.  I have a gesture for you.  I won't bother though.  I just hope no one you love is shot down in high school.

              •  A few questions: (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                Number one, did you even read the law.  Columbine happened 11 days before the meeting.  They had already sent out the notice; by New York State law, they had to hold the meeting.  They canceled everything but the voting members meeting.  And, had they had wiggle room to get out of the meeting, I'm pretty sure they would have done that as well.

                Number two, your last line:

                I just hope no one you love is shot down in high school.

                I am sorry that you had to suffer through the tragedy.  But, how did Heston cause this?  How did the NRA cause this?  Did they personally come and pull the trigger?  Did they personally give the guns to those two psychopaths?  No.  They stood up for the Second Amendment.  That's it.  

                Nobody wants to point the blame where it should have been-right at the two kids and possibly their parents.  Everyone wants to talk about the NRA, and the movie industry, and our 'culture of violence'.  But nobody looks at the fact that we had entertainment like that in the 70's, the 60's, the 50's, and so on, and you never heard of a school shooting or kid-on-kid violence like this.  They had just as much access, if not more-after all, there weren't any gun control laws in effect.

                Yet, bring up parenting in this country and you're insensitive.  Bring up the fact that parents want to be best friends nowadays instead of parents, and you're out of touch.  

                When these things happen, why don't we stop decrying the access of guns, and all the 'big culture' items, and start focusing on the 'small culture' items-that is, parenting, school environments, and how people are treated by those who actually know them and not some big studio or advocacy group in a place many of us will never visit.  Maybe then, we'll start solving some of these problems.

                Conservative since 1992. Open-minded since birth.

                by ShowMe on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 01:20:17 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yeah. (0+ / 0-)

                  Just what we needed.  Gunmongers invading our city after one of the worst tragedies of all time.

                  I can see your silly ass can't connect with people dying.  

                  You rant about other stuff.  But my fellow students died.  Rant about that D-Bag.

                  •  Yeah. You're right. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    After all, I served in the Navy.  I could never connect with anyone close to me dying.  I've never had members on my ship who died in tragic accidents.  I never came home during school training to find my roommate's body hanging from his rack.

                    I can't connect with anyone dying in my own personal life.  I never had to go down to my grandfather's house and find his body laying on the floor, or deal with the death of both of my grandmothers in the same year.

                    It is you, and solely you, that has had a stream of crap poured down upon their lives.

                    You see, I'm a silly insignificant nothing who sits up in my ivory tower and seems to think that maybe the NRA didn't have anything to do with it, and it might have actually been the people in Eric and Dylan's lives that affected them.  Damn me, my use of logic, and my understanding of how the world works.

                    Goodness gracious, you're an arrogant one, thinking that everyone who might disagree with you does so because they don't understand what you're going or have already went through.

                    One last time, try to realize something: it was either have the voting members meeting, or violate the law.  Those were the choices.  So, they cancelled everything except the actual meeting that they had to have per the law of New York State, their headquarters state that they have to conform with.  The stuff that Michael Moore blatantly splices together did not happen.  He [GASP] lied.  Read the speech.  Heston said that they, the members of the NRA, were suffering along with Columbine because their membership comprises every neighborhood of America.  He wasn't coming there to rub noses in it, or anything else.  It was a meeting that had to be held, per the law-you know, that thing that seems to be held sacrosanct by people like you until it no longer fits your needs.

                    I feel sorry that you had to go through that.  But I'm not going to coddle you or baby you.  I look at you as an adult, and capable of being able to rise above that.  You're playing the victim card, as if nobody else has ever had to suffer tragedy or loss.  You're compounding it by blaming people that had not a tinker's dam to do with it.  Grow up, do some factchecking, and realize that maybe not everyone is out to get you.

                    Conservative since 1992. Open-minded since birth.

                    by ShowMe on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 02:42:46 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

      •  How many are alive? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gaf, ER Doc, ShowMe

        how many people in this country are dead because of the organization Mr. Heston championed all these years?

        Count me as a progressive, pro-Obama, pro-choice, anti-war, virulently anti-Bush and anti-theocrat, [straight] pro-gay rights...

        ...2nd Amendment kinda guy.

        You want my vote?

        It ain't called paranoia - when they're really out to get you. 6 points.

        by Jaime Frontero on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 10:33:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hey, 2nd Amendment is all well and good... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lauren S

          ...but I missed when exactly the framers fought for gun shows to able to get around the "well-regulated" part...

          I FIRMLY believe in the right to own firearms...but I also believe that the NRA has gone off the deep end in protecting the unconscionable behavior of some (not all) licensed dealers...

          •  'Militias' are pointedly to be... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ER Doc

            ..."well regulated."

            The "right of the people to keep and bear Arms," not so much.

            The intent of the Amendment is clear - and the intent of the framers, drawn from their writings (those pesky 'secondary sources' considered in court decisions), is equally so.

            I FIRMLY believe in the right to own firearms...


            D'you think they're for hunting?  Target practice?

            Do you believe, as is apparently the fashion, that all rights flow from the 4th Amendment?  I don't.

            It ain't called paranoia - when they're really out to get you. 6 points.

            by Jaime Frontero on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 10:55:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I dont know (0+ / 0-)

        How Many? Ill say close to none.


        "How often misused words generate misleading thoughts."
        ~Herbert Spencer~

        by Eidolon on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 10:35:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  bah.... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Gryffin, Aqualad08, Lauren S

      ...I'd rather not write my comments on the basis of what Bill O'Reilly would say.

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