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View Diary: Why Kossacks are losing their minds (219 comments)

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  •  sad, sad, sad (4.00)
    A diary trashes Kerry and the Dem party and goes straight to the top of the recommended diaries. Then the comments are filled with righteous outrage. I guess this is how it's going to be around here for a while.

    Attorney at Arms said it best in a diary below: If I read one more suggestion for the Kerry campaign, I'm going to vomit.

    Yes, please Kerry campaign, please spend your time writing dKos diaries -- and if you don't, that just proves that you have no real progressive values and just take us true progressives for granted. (Where-o-where is Dean???)

    Next up: selling clothes pins on dKos to the righteous among us. Yeah, we're the real progressives over here. Listen to us.

    Honestly, I don't know what is more irritating -- the fact that Kerry is not ahead by 10 pts or the fact that the loudest and most respected voices on this blog spend more time tearing down Kerry and the Dem party than even Bush & Rove do. Well, actually, I do know what is more irritating since if Kerry was 10 pts up I'd feel better about our future. It is disappointing, though, to see how people on this blog are reacting to a tough campaign.

    "I don't want to wake up on Nov 3 with George Bush still president and ask myself if there was anything more I could have done." -- Moby

    by lapis on Tue Sep 14, 2004 at 11:26:48 AM PDT

    •  nah...I think (none)
      that one has to realize that a lot of us here at any rate are "on loan" in some way or another. We are a tough audience. Why don't we tear into Bush more? I can only say that I'm not sure I can tear into Bush more. There are only so many ways to do it. He has to go--I think everyone here gets the picture--but after that, it just gets repetitive. We can't impeach him and we can't have a coup. So for those of us for whom Kerry was not only not first choice, but never really grew on us much--he's been around on sufferance--not his own merits. And that's a legitimate feeling--one that some wish we'd squish hard into our unconscious as we're waving our Kerry banners, but it exists nonetheless, and it rears its head more when the going gets tough. That makes sense too.

      If Kerry were blah, but up 10 points in the polls, well, who cares how the dissatisfied feel. On the other hand, a lackluster performance makes us feel our lack of enthusiasm was somehow justified, and emboldens us to complain.

      The fact is that we're "stuck" with Kerry as we are with Bush--perhaps even more so, since even those of us who don't love him still need him to be president. But for those of us who feel "stuck", our lots would feel less onerous if Kerry were comfortably ahead.

      I realize that comfortably ahead is something of a luxury at this point, but to be gnawing your fingernails on behalf of a candidate you're not terribly enthusiastic about? That's going to lead to some complaining.

      I'm happy with my $20 of influence

      by JMS on Tue Sep 14, 2004 at 11:52:09 AM PDT

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      •  I'm sure for some.... (4.00)
        ....there is disappointment that Kerry isn't running his campaign like it's Smackdown at the WWF.  I contend he's trying to do more than just win an election.  In the end, he has to have the moral authority to lead.  There's more to being an effective president than beating your opponent to death in the election, you have to pull people to your side other than your most ardent supporters.  He's go to leave the door open for that possibility.

        The conservative definition of "right-sized" government: Somewhere between big enough to fit in a corporate boardroom and small enough to fit in a womb.

        by cls180 on Tue Sep 14, 2004 at 12:04:29 PM PDT

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        •  Winning is the only moral authority he needs... (none)
          He won't get anyone on the other side to help him.  At least not in the House and Senate.

          We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

          by delver rootnose on Tue Sep 14, 2004 at 12:30:52 PM PDT

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          •  There aren't only two sides. (none)
            And if I can't work with a person, I can find a person I can work with who can work with that person.

            I've watched Kerry all his public life.  But I didn't realize how upstanding he is a good man -- until I read the "Washington Monthly" piece about his uncovering Contra-cocaine--Iran-Contra--BCCI.

            Read that and appreciate depth, persistence, substance, and integrity which isn't mere lip-service.

            •  well lets win the election first.. (none)
              Then see if people like Delay and Santorum or Chamblis will work with us.  I kind of doubt it but there is always hope.

              Maybe snow and McCain will help a little.  Although I have lost some respect of McCain lately.

              We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

              by delver rootnose on Tue Sep 14, 2004 at 09:38:46 PM PDT

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      •  I guess I'm wondering, (4.00)
        though, because did anyone here on dKos honestly think this contest was going to be anything but a mean, vicious dogfight? Everyone admitted that it would be in the spring and early summer. Now that it's here, people act like there's something seriously off-kilter with Kerry, when actually it's par for the course.

        There was never going to be a scenario with Kerry ten points ahead. It was always going to be close, so why the doom and gloom now? Bush's convention bounce is fading and Iraq is in meltdown. These two dynamics will bring the polls back to a tie before the debates. After that it's a sprint to the finish.

        Yes, I wish we had the media on our side. Yes, the Kerry campaign should be better at Branding 101. Yes, in an ideal world the great majority would see Bush for the dangerous fearmongerer he is. But instead we're going to have an extremely close election that will be decided by whichever side does better GOTV.

        I'm not directing this to you specifically, JMS. I guess I just wanted to express the idea that this is no time for Kossacks to go wobbly, to quote the immortal line of Margaret Thatcher.

        Bush belongs behind bars.

        by orchid314 on Tue Sep 14, 2004 at 12:04:54 PM PDT

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      •  I agree, sort of JMS (none)
        but to be gnawing your fingernails on behalf of a candidate you're not terribly enthusiastic about? That's going to lead to some complaining.

        At the same time as I agree, from a philosophic view, its really not Kerry , or any candidate I derive my enthusiasm from. Our enthusiasm needs to come from within, to be enthusiastic about our democracy, about our nation and our future.Even when things dont look good, we must hold that image of the type of world and country we want to create and bequeath to our children and future generations.

        Peoples lack of enthusiasm is a big reason we are where we are today. They dont even have the energy to vote for gods sake, and the result is someone like Bush.

        This election, albeit a big one perhaps, is just one battle for creating our future. The work is never ending, and wether Kerry or Bush(God forbid) wins, there is still going to be so much work to be done, so much participation demanded. I really think we need to start believing the world we want is here now, and to go out and use the power we have in creating it. I really do believe we have the power, its time we started using it.

        "You will determine whether rage or reason guides the United States in the struggle to come. You will choose whether we are known for revenge or compassion.

        by mickey on Tue Sep 14, 2004 at 12:10:40 PM PDT

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    •  Focused Rage (none)
      I think the REAL reason for the angst is that people are not focusing their energies appropriately.

      When pissing into the wind, one tends to get wet.

      Wonking on a blog is fun and all, but getting 'out there' seems to be more effective.  If you are feeling frustrated, get to work.  You'll feel better soon enough.

      But staying on message and feeling like you are a PART of the campaign is of primary importance.  How could that have been done more effectively?  By having the Kerry campaign have representatives focusing the energies of the hardest, wisest, most energetic people around - the people of DKos and associated progressive blogs!

      That's what people are pissing and moaning about, the 'what could have been done'.   That doesn't mean they aren't working their asses off trying to make it happen.

      Just be happy no one has said 'circular firing squad' hear in a while!   Everybody on the Dems side is shooting for the big guy, but they aren't aiming at coordinated achilies heels!

    •  I officially don't give a hoot (4.00)
      what irritates you.

      I've put my heart and soul into a TON of diaries here, many of them hopeful.  Click and see.

      You pissed on my last diary, and now you are pissing on this one.  I take it personally...especially the parental tone and the sense that open and frank discussion should be censored to create some kind of alternative reality happy wagon Democratic party and dKos.

      Sorry, this is a moment to get angry.  And at other times I've said it wasn't.  NOW is the time to get angry and active.  We love this country too much.  We have too much invested in our party, our neighborhoods, our families and all that we love about the USA to watch as a familiar pattern plays out in the media and in this election cycle...

      Kerry and Edwards need to rally the BASE now...immediately.  They need us fired up.  

      If you read doubt and worry and anger here it's because those of us who spend time at trench level are having an extreme 'gut check' moment.

      Kerry / Edwards need to rally the base and critique Bush straight on...and the perception is that they are not doing so.

      I can live with losing in a fair fight on the record;  I can't bear to watch a party and a country I love get mauled by the GOP and be told to be patient while my candidates run a stealth campaign in swing states...

      For what it's is high noon for John Kerry in this Democrat's mind.  Patience is OVER for me....

      I was patient in April, May and June....I was patient in July....I was REALLY patient in August.

      If you find my impatience irritating.....I am truly sorry.  But politics is ALSO about the HEART.

      And for many of us here....our hearts are very much on the line this time.  

      John Kerry and John Edwards would pay to take note.  Space is right.

      2004's the election, 2005's the prize...let'sTCB!

      by kid oakland on Tue Sep 14, 2004 at 09:28:32 PM PDT

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      •  yeah (none)
        well, my heart is on the line this time too, and I'm putting it out there.

        I'm sorry if you think I pissed on your diary. That was not my intention. I thought I was disagreeing with you. I guess that's not allowed anymore -- if your patience is up, I mean.

        "I don't want to wake up on Nov 3 with George Bush still president and ask myself if there was anything more I could have done." -- Moby

        by lapis on Tue Sep 14, 2004 at 09:36:51 PM PDT

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        •  No, it's much more that I would love (none)
          to hear more about what you stand for...what  your heart and mind is telling you...than to hear you tell other folks to temper their opinions and rants without showing your cards.

          By all means disagree with me, flame me (it's been done, I don't mind), snark me, point out my stupid repetitive memes, my hypocrisies...hell, that's why we're all here, for feedback and interaction....

          but please don't tut tut me, or tsk tsk me without also explaining yourself, without telling us why you are here and have spent YOUR energy in posting and critiqueing.  That's all I mean by pissing.

          Listen, my start point here is that any one of you all could be my ally, a future friend, a fellow traveller of sorts.  But I argue with my friends, I am honest with them....and they sure as hell are honest with me....that's all I'm trying to say.

          2004's the election, 2005's the prize...let'sTCB!

          by kid oakland on Tue Sep 14, 2004 at 10:45:32 PM PDT

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