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View Diary: Missouri House Votes To Disenfranchise 240,000 (65 comments)

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  •  Well (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    no affirmative right to vote for Presidential electors.

    Which is important to understand.

    But it isn't the whole story.

    For example, the Voting Rights Act, which protects the franchise for millions of Americans has been ruled constitutional and therefore enforces the right to vote.

    This is, as noted, not the same thing as the Constitution saying it, but I don't think it's too far gone to say you have the right to vote.

    •  Well (0+ / 0-)

      When the state delegates can pick who they want and are not elected to that position, I am not so sure.

      "Oderint dum metutant"

      by Void Indigo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:58:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Remember (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        there is more to voting than just the Presidential race.

        I do appreciate your point on this in general, but as to my own point above, there are more elections than just Prez, from Library Board on up and the VRA and other laws are all designed to protect our right to participate in those elections.

        I think we're probably both splitting hairs a bit here. I just want to note that voting in tenuous, but a right, and we need to do our best to ensure that we have ballot integrity, but also full participation of eligible populations.

        •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

          but we also must make sure it is all above board and honest. If we do not have faith in the execution of voting then how can we believe in the results.

          "Oderint dum metutant"

          by Void Indigo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:10:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Absolutely (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Elise, corvo

            That's why Project Vote did this great report called The Politics of Voter Fraud, which tracks down all the voter fraud cases in the US since 2002.

            Here's what they found:

            • Between 2002 and 2005, the federal government obtained convictions against only 24 individuals for fraudulently voting. Of those, 15 were convictions of noncitizens for voting. In the same period, over 214 million ballots were cast for federal office.

            Last Tuesday IN kept 12 nuns from voting.

            On the one hand you have 15 conviction for non-citizen voting (out of 214 million votes!).

            On the other hand you have a dozen nuns disenfranchised in one election in one precinct.

            The cost-benefit doesn't pencil out.

            That's the kind of stuff that convinced me that voter ID is about suppressing votes, not about ensuring the integrity of elections.

            You can get the full report here. (PDF)

            •  Just Because There were only 15 convictions... (0+ / 0-)

              Doesn't mean that the other 214 million votes were cast legally.

              When I drive I see lots of people speeding, running red lights, etc. Are they guilty of speeding, yes, have they been convicted, no.

              I live in a small town in East Texas.  We recently had a local electin with a one vote margin of victory.  The losing candidate looked at all the voter lists of those casting ballots.  He found a husband and wife who lived in a different Precinct than the election but had a business within the Precinct.  They illegally used their business address to register to vote.  The losing candidate filed a lawsuit and because the two voters were ineligible to vote in that Precinct the election was ruled invalid and a new election was held.  Were these two voters convicted, no.

              •  Absolutely true (0+ / 0-)

                But, it's also true that the full weight of the Department of Justice was put into finding voter fraud, and that's the best they could do.

                The percentage of good votes to bad ones is simply overwhelming and voter ID doesn't pass the cost-benefit test or really solve the problem of voter impersonation, which most often occurs in absentee ballots, or vote stuffing, vote buying, or anything that is more likely to be done in a concerted effort to subvert an election...

                •  Do You Feel That ... (0+ / 0-)

                  The couple in my town that registered and voted illegally at their business address should have been prosecuted?

                  •  In the facts (0+ / 0-)

                    as you have presented them I would advocate for some form of punishment.

                    But I want to stress that I don't have the facts and don't feel comfortable passing judgement based on hearsay in a comments thread on a political blog.

                    No offense to you at is meant, I just don't have enough facts to really make a judgement here...

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