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View Diary: Obama drops hint:  Obama-Sebelius? (192 comments)

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  •  It's not "a bone" to throw at feminists (11+ / 0-)

    That's insulting to feminists because it assumes they all vote based on a candidate's gender.  Sebelius is a great VP pick for lots of reasons, but gender is not at the top of that list.

    •  Sorry..but I was thinking about my mother. (6+ / 0-)

      ...who, for about 4 months, every time we talked politics she basically put her fingers in her ears and repeated ad nauseum "It's time for a woman!"

      (She's at least reality-based enough that she figures Obama has it in the bag at this point.)

    •  Exactly. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hormiguero, discocarp

      Diarist remove that line.
      No doubt that Sebellius is strong and independent and embodies feminism though.

      "Any road followed precisely to its end leads precisely nowhere"

      by soms on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:06:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  To be fair... (0+ / 0-)

      ...many feminists will vote their gender. That's been a nasty point of contention among various feminists and feminist groups throughout this campaign. Remember that nasty letter from New York NOW that Ted Kennedy got after coming out in favor of Obama?

      I actually sympathize to a point--not with that ridiculous letter, but with the desire for both men and women to vote for a woman. That point, however, was passed long ago by these individual candidates.

      •  Why is it always the most obnoxious ones (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldjohnbrown, zbbrox, unertl, Alohilani

        who get the most attention? Those feminists I'm not even sure are the majority, but in people's minds they are representative of all of us now because the more lucid ones haven't gotten the same press.

        For the record, Marcia Pappas of New York NOW singlehandedly undercut many women's support of her organization with that unhinged rant re. Kennedy's endorsement. My friends and I initially thought it was a spoof when we heard of it at first. Sadly, we were wrong.

        A member of NY NOW I know, who was pretty lukewarm towards all candidates this election, declared she would never donate another penny to NY NOW after getting that letter from Pappas. She wasn't an Obama fan, but found Pappas' letter to be pretty offensive and just unwelcome in it's crying "betrayal" because Kennedy endorsed a man over Clinton. Ugh.

        Some feminists will vote their gender, but we've got no real data to tell us what that means exactly. What percentage of self-identified feminists are truly alienated by Obama, and what percentage will, in the end, allow McCain to be elected president out of spite. I don't believe a significant portion will allow their own bitterness over Clinton not making it to sacrifice issues they've worked all their lives for. They still care about reproductive rights. Equal pay for women. Raising awareness of domestic violence, etc. McCain will not take up these causes, he will work against some at least.

        •  I certainly wouldn't say... (0+ / 0-)

          ...the, forgive the expression, bitter few who'd sacrifice self-interest if a woman isn't involved are a majority, but I don't think it's outlandish to think that picking Sebelius as a running mate might re-attract some of the old-school feminists who would otherwise sit out the campaign out of frustration. How many are there? I don't know. But not many people supported Nader in 2000, and look what happened.

          •  A lot of "traditional" feminists... (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            zbbrox, brooklynliberal, Alohilani

            have really gone off the rails this primary season. Gloria Steinem and Susan Faludi come immediately to mind. While I certainly appreciate their desire to see a female President, and agree we're long overdue for one, they completely miss the forest for the trees.

            Hillary Clinton seems to be a particularly poor feminist icon, but has become one largely because of headline-making ability, sympathy, and, most ironically of all, her ability to "play with the boys" (as Faludi wrote last week.)

            "All it takes is one person to stand up and say 'f--k this.'"--Henry Rollins

            by ekthesy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:55:01 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  You do have a point. I agree Sebelius (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            zbbrox

            would be a real draw to that particular group. But I suspect the group that would sit it out might have a smaller impact in these circumstances than we think.

            We have no way of really measuring or knowing their impact/non-impact. It may be urgent to reach out to them, or not urgent. But I think a majority of self-identified feminists will at least pull the lever for Obama when it comes down to it.

            And you know .... what the hell.... I mean, were feminists particularly fond of Hillary Clinton before she decided to run for president??? I don't remember this being the case. It's kind of irritating that they don't remember the role she played in smearing the women her husband had affairs with to preserve his political career.

            •  That's what convinces me, though... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              brooklynliberal

              ...that there are a significant number of women who aren't really seeing past their desire to have a woman in office. Can it really be that this individual woman is the optimal feminist icon? It seems unlikely, and so I'm lead to believe it is less the woman than the fact that she's a woman who had a shot at it. That isn't true, I'm certain, for the majority of her supporters, but I bet it's true for some of the most vocal and influential ones.

              I hope you're right that the impact will be small. I'm not totally convinced it'll be a game-changer or anything, but I can see why Sebelius's sex would be a point in her favor, in addition to her obvious qualifications. Still, I would prefer to see someone with real defense experience in there to shore up that potential trouble spot.

      •  I also remember an email from NY NOW (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        zbbrox, brooklynliberal

        with a similar message that it sent to its entire list. I was so pissed off that I unsubscribed. Very immature.

        And, certainly for NOW, gender is still a major factor in how many people vote.

    •  Why is it insulting to repeat something that many (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dewley notid, BennyToothpick

      academic feminists, celebrity feminists, and feminist organizations have themselves been saying?  

    •  I disagree completely.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      venatrix

      More than 50% of Democrats are women. Representing them on the ticket IS important. Maybe calling it a bone to feminists is a bit insulting, but it might be welcomed by women disappointed by Clinton's failure. Her gender is a big reason to consider her. As is her attractiveness. And her intelligence. And her politics.

      Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

      by FischFry on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:17:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  She's a Tough, Smart, Well-Qualified Woman.... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      unertl, Alohilani

      Better?  She would still be the highest-ranking woman in the history of the US, and that's significant...

    •  It Was Poorly Phrased, but There is a Point (0+ / 0-)

      buried in there somewhere. While, it would not be a "bone" to throw at feminists, just as an African American VP choice for McCain would not win over the African American vote; however, adding a strong, progressive woman to the ticket will be something that all women and men will be able to be proud of!

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