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View Diary: Obama supporters: the antithesis of Barack Obama (196 comments)

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  •  Okay, now you're just being a bully. (0+ / 0-)

    She does have her flaws as a candidate, I'll grant you that.  Her vote on the Iraq war was a masterpiece of preemptive triangulation, and she badly misread the mood of the electorate (thinking it was still the early 1990's).  She made bad hiring decisions based more on loyalty than competence.  But...

    Incompetent candidates don't get as far as she has, or keep the score as close as she has for as long as she has.  Talk about the things she did wrong all you want to (we've all seen them and recognized them for what they were) but try to talk about things her supporters can be proud of in her defeat.  Admit that she's very tough, very smart, relentless, dedicated and above all a good Democrat.  Admit that without her roughing him up he'd still be too soft to go toe-to-toe with a Republican machine with nothing to lose.  Admit that if Obama wins the White House, he owes it in no small part to Hillary Clinton.

    Above all, try to repress that nasty impulse to yell "in your FACE!" like a ten-year-old on the playground.

    It is difficult to win an argument when your opponent is unencumbered with a knowledge of the facts. Dr. Nordstrom's First Rule of Debate

    by DemInTampa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:30:17 PM PDT

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    •  Anyone who starts out as inevitable... (0+ / 0-)

      ... as Hillary did, with Bill's machine behind her, and turns a 20-point Gallup lead (Jan 18) into a 16-point Gallup deficit (May 18) in four short months, while running against a relatively inexperienced black guy with big ears and three foreign-sounding names, is an incompetent candidate.

      Barack by-god-Hussein Obama is a splendidly capable politician, and I'll be damned proud to vote for him in November, but he ain't the Baby Jesus.  Given what she started out with, Hillary should have been able to whup him handily this time around.  Instead, he whupped her, and looked cool doing it.

      I'm sorry, that's just how it is.  This fact alone is enough to disqualify her from being President, and that disqualifies her from being Vice President.

      "Without bitterness, all chocolate is a Hershey bar." -- Harry Shearer

      by tbetz on Mon May 19, 2008 at 07:54:56 PM PDT

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      •  I'll give you that much. (0+ / 0-)

        She depended on it, and she hired Mark Penn for w-a-a-a-a-y too much money.  And she listened to him.

        As much as I would have liked watching winger heads explode when she took the oath of office, I try to approach politics with a professional's eye.  Her big mistakes:

        1. She listened to Mark Penn.
        1. She badly misjudged the mood of the voters
        1. She didn't out-unity Obama when he was just an asterisk
        1. She didn't come out and say she was wrong for her Iraq vote
        1. She picked her people for loyalty instead of skill (Hilda Solis Doyle; see Mark Penn)
        1. She ignored the caucus states and let Obama run up the score.  Apparently this comes from her listening to Mark Penn, who didn't understand that Democrats don't award delegates winner-take-all.
        1. She waited until way too late to start hitting up her supporters via the Internet, and she let Obama build a cash machine that she can't match.
        1. She should have had Bill running her campaign for real.  She still might have lost, but I don't think she would have made as many rookie mistakes.

        All that said, there's a lot to admire about her.  She doesn't have a drop of quit in her, and she's not afraid to drop the H-bomb if she thinks she has to.  She's fast on her feet, and she's extremely intelligent and very witty.  She does her homework (when Obama didn't seem to) and she hones in on what her voters are worried about and and they want a president to do.  That kind of retail political sense is very rare, and she has it.

        She and Bill were just about perfectly adapted to campaigning in the 1990's, when Gingrich's permanent republican majority seemed like it could happen and making policy was a matter of getting as much as you can by outflanking Republicans and a moderate-conservative electorate.  If this were 1996, she'd be unbeatable.  The fundamental reason she will lose is that she didn't realize how drastically the wind is shifting.  It's a failure of perception as well as a failure of imagination, but it's hard to fault her too much for it.  Things like that worked for Bill, and by all rights it should have worked for her.  Penn certainly thought so.  

        All that said, however, you could try and be a little nicer to the people who fell in love with her only to see her lose.  Just because some of the Clinton supporters are dickheads doesn't mean you have to be.  There is a lot to be said for saying things like "She was a fierce candidate and a very, very tough campaigner, and we're happy to have beaten her."

        Obama beating a hardball player like Hillary is something special; Obama beating an incompetent politician is nothing special, like being the best athlete at a fat farm or the tallest basketball player in the second grade.

        It is difficult to win an argument when your opponent is unencumbered with a knowledge of the facts. Dr. Nordstrom's First Rule of Debate

        by DemInTampa on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:19:44 PM PDT

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