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View Diary: Shut Your Fucking Pie-Hole... (381 comments)

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  •  I can't believe that (3.66)
    your defense of Kerry was that he was inept, and couldn't tell what the right thing was.

    Can't Bush and his supporters use that same excuse?  "Hey, I know there were no WMD, but who could blame me for being sure there was!  We all thought it, and hindsight is 20/20!"

    •  My defence of Kerry is... (4.00)
      ...that he wanted to make sure and that he knew how HE would haqve handled the same authority.

      You knew.

      You're brilliant.

      LOTS OF FOLK WERE NOT SO SURE.

      LOTS.

      (And last I looked... 23 senators is not close to a majority.)

      Want to beat Bush... it's the LIES, stupid.

      by JeffLieber on Sun Sep 19, 2004 at 10:50:34 PM PDT

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      •  A whole lot of people (4.00)
        knew Bush was determined to go to war regardless, and that this authorization was just an easy way for dems to take the issue off the table in the next election.  A whole lot of people knew Bush wasn't serious about inspections.  I understand the talking point here, but we're generally ALL Kerry people on this site, and it's lame as hell to substitute a talking point for the truth.  I fully expect--I DEMAND--that Kerry say whatever it takes to win, but we aren't writing script for the party.  I support Kerry because of the next two or three Supreme Court appointees, and because I can't hold him accountable for his war vote at the same time I'm holding Bush accountable.
        •  kerry was covering his ass (4.00)
          he was already planning to run for president and he knows that you cant be electable if you stand between the US and  it's All Consuming Need to Kill Non- White Non -Christians...

          sorry, simple and cynical on his part and mine.

          fuck the koolaide and remember that  in Jonestown most were Forced to drink... No one should be happy about  silencing rational thought...

          as far as what happens if Kerry loses i think honestly someone should be thinking about it...  and i think that someone is Howard Dean!!

          •  A Stupid CYA (none)
            Look, if the Iraq war went the way the neocons wanted -- WMD's found (or persuasively fabricated), ties to AQ found (or persuasively fabricated), democracy or at least stability installed afterwards -- then Bush was gonna win no matter what.  Voting to support Bush's glorious victory would have been meaningless.  The only viable scenario for a Dem victory in 2004 involved Bush's Iraq war going badly.  The CYA vote would have been against the war, not for it.
    •  No ... No ... No! (4.00)
      They could on the October 2002 vote. But they could not when the troops rolled in March 2003. At that point, Hans Blix's team had been making progress (unlike prior to the vote). The point of Kerry's YES vote (which I disagreed with, and still could argue about) was that it was necessary for leverage. It was not a declaration of war per se, but merely an escalation in the negotiation for compliance with UN resolutions concerning Iraq's arsenal.

      The resolution worked. Sad that Bush took the power well beyond what any sane, compassionate person would do.

      Remember Bush's lie (one of many, of course) - claiming that Hussein was not cooperating with the inspectors?

      vote early - vote often

      by wystler on Sun Sep 19, 2004 at 11:07:39 PM PDT

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      •  Thank you. (none)
        Clarity thy name is Wystler.

        Want to beat Bush... it's the LIES, stupid.

        by JeffLieber on Sun Sep 19, 2004 at 11:09:27 PM PDT

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      •  You're right about one thing: (4.00)
        The resolution did "work."  It really got the job done.  Really got the blood and money flowin'!
        •  Bush Didn't Need the Resolution (none)
          The president had sufficient authority without the resolution to invade Iraq. Legal scholars can help clarify the finer points in this assertion, but I'll gladly rest saying that it is so ...

          vote early - vote often

          by wystler on Sun Sep 19, 2004 at 11:19:22 PM PDT

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          •  Yeah, but he REALLLLLLYYYYYY (3.50)
            wanted that resolution.
            •  Misconceptions abound (4.00)
              Get this :  If John Kerry had been president, there would hae been no war, there would have been NO RESOLUTION -- because Bush chose to go to war BEFORE HE BECAME PRESIDENT, in fact it might have been the only thing on his mind besides tax cuts.  

              Bush's whole plan all along was to use the war, and it's glorious hero's glow to coast to re-election, because he knew that the rest of his agenda was HUMONGOUSLY unpopular, but that knuckleheads from the middle of the country rally around the president in times of 'crisis'.  

              Bush manufactured the entire threat.  KERRY WOULD NOT HAVE DONE THAT BECAUSE HE'S NOT AN INSECURE, WARMONGERING FUCKTARD.

              Once Bush made his move with the IWR vote, Kerry had two choices, vote YES or vote NO, there was not an option of putting the car in reverse.  The speech Kerry gave on the floor of the senate at the time of the vote made it clear he was concerned that this was all a political ploy, but he felt it necessary to give the PRESIDENT the benefit of the doubt that he was actually acting in defense of the nation - The President, it turns out was either wrong, or lying and either way that means BUSH fucked it up.  Kerry would NOT have asked for that vote, but at the time it came up on the floor, he was trapped into voting for a flawed idea, or saying no to a 'wartime president' (with 80% aproval) who asked the congress for help defending the country.

              Bush masterfully tricked the democrats, now Kerry's critics on the left are being tricked as well...BY BUSH.  Apparently they don't understand this is EXACTLY what Bush wanted to happen - for Kerry to get hit from the left and the right - THAT'S WHY HE DID IT, and now the purists on the left are (unwittingly?) helping do Bush's dirty work by attacking Kerry for not being perfect.  I wonder, are they comfortable with another four wars under President Bullshit?

              Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children. - Khalil Gibran

              by PBJ Diddy on Mon Sep 20, 2004 at 04:46:06 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Corroboration (none)
                "The speech Kerry gave on the floor of the senate at the time of the vote made it clear he was concerned that this was all a political ploy."

                I'll go along with that.

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