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View Diary: Miami Cubans -an ovation and opening for Obama? (118 comments)

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  •  I am sorry for the Cubans (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Deoliver47

    because your support of the sanctions - and others that have supported the sanctions - in my opinion - are the reason that Cubans are still under dictatorship.  

    If there had been free trade -- if would have been impossible for Castro to keep the Cuban people sequestered from the rest of the world.

    So yes - Cuba is a dicatorship - but only because we have helped Castro keep it like that.

    "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

    by sara seattle on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:34:16 AM PDT

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    •  Pardon me Sarah (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Deoliver47

      But not every dictator can be laid on our doorstep, and again you misunderstand how cpmmunism works, the party leaders get all the money, the people don't.

      •  We should be clear (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sara seattle

        that Soviet communism - and Fidel opted for the Stalinist version - is a dictatorship.

        I do think that Fidel was "pushed" from an earlier socialist perspective into the arms of the Soviets - early mistakes on the part of the US, but there is no use crying over spilt milk or history.  it is what it is. Now we have to figure out what to do about it.

        what we are doing clearly isn't working

        BTW- frankly I'm a democratic socialist in my leanings these days.  :)

        Anthropologists for human diversity; opposing McCain perversity

        by Denise Oliver Velez on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:43:22 AM PDT

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        •  There's nothing wrong with (0+ / 0-)

          Democratic Socialism, I prefer free markets, but I realize that unabashed capitalism leads to economic inequalities, and government can level the playing field, but government is not the answer to all ills.  Removing/Punishing dissent is also a major mistake of Communism.

          But as long as the governments are answerable to the will of the people Deoliver, and can be voted out of office, I find nothing wrong with government intervention.

          I guess that's why I'm a Democrat.  The best Democraatic programs are the ones that help the poor and elderly, Medicaid and Social Security

          •  I lived for a time in countries which (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Land of Enchantment

            provide health care to all citizens, day care for mothers, support to the elderly.  

            Having worked so long in poor communities here in the US - I am appalled by our infant mortality rates, levels of illiteracy, lack of elder care and child care.

            The "Welfare to Work" policies of the Clinton administration have been a disaster.  

            We have more people in prison per capita than many brutal dictatorships.  

            Don't get me wrong - this is my country - I love it, and have plenty to compare it with.  But there are things that need serious fixing here.

            I also have had the opportunity to travel throughout the Americas and the Caribbean - to "blend" in, and hear how real people on the ground view the US and its policies.  

            Anthropologists for human diversity; opposing McCain perversity

            by Denise Oliver Velez on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:30:53 PM PDT

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            •  It's nice to hear (0+ / 0-)

              That you have spent so much tiime helping the poor and elderly Deoliver.  You don't just talk the talk, you walk the walk.

              We will all see how it turns out.  Keep writing diaries, Latin America is sadly underrepresented here.  I haven't been here too long, but I haven't read much on Latin America or Cuba.

      •  Give me a break (0+ / 0-)

        my old country in Europe was right next door to a communist country - so do not give me that sanctimonious crap -

        as long as the country is sequestered from the rest of the word - the dictators stay in power -- when the doors are opened up - and they are getting people from all over the world visiting - getting other opinions than the communists line

        that is when their world changes --

        and if you are so sure your sanctions works -- then what is happening in Cuba? - why hasn't it happened there - because you honestly cannot say that the Cuban peoples lives have been improved because of your sanctions..

        I think you have been drinking too much kool-aid

        "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

        by sara seattle on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:45:33 AM PDT

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        •  OK, so you must be for trade with China Right (0+ / 0-)

          China's trade surplus and human rghts and forced labor doesn't bother you right.  They will see the error of their ways won't they, if only we keep trading with them?

          And free trade with Mexico and Canada is the right thing to do, because economic liberalism can only improve economic conditions worldwide, right?

          •  There is no point in discussing (0+ / 0-)

            this with you unfortunately

            I have asked you several times to explain how the sanctions have worked so far

            and as expected you have been unable to answer that

            So let me know when you are ready to continue the discussion...

            and after that I will give you my answer on free trade.

            "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

            by sara seattle on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:25:24 PM PDT

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            •  Sanctions worked in what way (0+ / 0-)

              Removing Castro?  No they have not worked.  Nor do I think will engaging Raul and lifting trade sactions will work.  OK?  I think just because an idea is new doesn't make it worthwhile to try.  

              That is absolutely where I stand.

              Now can you tell me if your stand on trade extends to China and NAFTA?

              •  Nafta and trade with China (0+ / 0-)

                both should have had provisions for worker salaries and safety and checks by the US for safety standards both for workers and for thesafety of the products - as it is now the USA is basically supporting slave labor as no provisions were required.

                That will need to be renegotiated as soon as Obama is in as President

                So since sanctions have not worked -- let us rescind them and negotiate a treaty.

                "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

                by sara seattle on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:59:16 PM PDT

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                •  How can we dictate Mexican and Chinese (0+ / 0-)

                  salaries, do they dictate ours? They will pay their workers what they want. Just as we do.

                  •  In order for American corporations to (0+ / 0-)

                    make deals with Chinese or Mexican corporations there has to be working standards and salary standards in place

                    Unless those demands are met -- the corporations will go somewhere else

                    It is very simple - in business deals we do it like that every day

                    "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

                    by sara seattle on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:40:27 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

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