Skip to main content

View Diary: "Impeachment Alone Would Be a Joke" Bugliosi, Helter Skelter Author (58 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  I beg to differ (6+ / 0-)

    From Glenn Greenwald :

    Yes, I feel the same way. We’ve decided as a country that "war crimes" are things that other people commit, that international law and punishment applies only to other countries, and that because we are inherently Good, even our bad acts are just "mistakes," never "criminal."

    We also have embraced the principle that "moving on beyond partisan warfare" is a higher value than "punishing felonies and high crimes committed by government officials" — Ford pardoned Nixon, the Iran-contra criminals were protected, there has been no accountability for any Bush lawbreaking, etc. etc.

    I think we ought not give up on the idea of holding our political leaders accountable for the war crimes and other atrocities they deliberately perpetrated, but the likelihood is extremely low.

    From Gen Sanchez, retired, in his new book

    In the meantime, hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars were unnecessarily spent, and worse yet, too many of our most precious military resource, our American soldiers, were unnecessarily wounded, maimed, and killed as a result. In my mind, this action by the Bush administration amounts to gross incompetence and dereliction of duty.

    From the Huffington Post via Froomkin

    Documentary filmmaker Errol Morris writes on "While I was working on Standard Operating Procedure, many people asked about 'the smoking gun.' 'Have you found the smoking gun? Have you found the smoking gun? -- presumably linking the abuses to the upper levels of the Defense Department and to the White House?' The question puzzles me. There are smoking guns everywhere but people don't see them, refuse to see them or pretend they don't exist. How many torture memos does an administration have to promulgate before the public gets the idea they are promulgating torture? Bush has recently admitted that he was present at these meetings and approved 'harsh interrogation techniques.' And yet this has scarcely been a news story. Well-documented attempts to subvert the Constitution, abrogation of the Geneva Conventions and simple human decency. What does it take?

    "We are surrounded by smoking guns on all sides. Crimes have been committed; we have ample evidence of them. But there can be no justice if there is a failure to stand up for it, if we fail to demand it. . . .

    "It is easy to dismiss all of this as the unfortunate product of war. But this is not about war, it is about us. How complacent have we become? What does it take? Each day that we allow these crimes to go unanswered erodes the very ideals that this country stands for."

    Molly Ivins reply when asked about Obama, Her answer: "Yes, he should run. He's the only Democrat with any `Elvis' to him."

    by SmileySam on Mon May 26, 2008 at 09:43:59 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  But.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Greenwald, Sanchez, and Froomkin have no authority to charge Bush, Cheney, et al., with war crimes for starting an illegal war or for authorizing torture or lying every time they open their mouths for the last eight years.

      I do agree with Greenwald, Sanchez, and Froomkin, but they don't have the authority to DO anything.  Congress Critters do, but they have chosen not to do anything but let the clock run out on this criminal mis-administration.  They plead "no time" and "other things to do" like they can't walk and chew gum at the same time.  Plenty of other things got done in Congress when they pursued Clinton unnecessarily, so those are invalid excuses.

      The crimes have already been laid out that take up reams of paper when printed out (it's all online on various web sites), books have been written, interviews forwarding the cause of impeachment have been done with such notables as John Nichols and Bruce Fein (Bill Moyers Journal last year), local jurisdictions in states have voted for impeachment, there is the Kucinich resolution against Cheney, but that's gathering dust in the House Judiciary Committee, and the impeachment resolution Conyers drew up before the '06 election hasn't even been brought to the floor (and Conyers authored one of the books).  Yet those with the authority to DO SOMETHING have chosen not to do anything but give Georgie and Dickie more and more power which is counter to the balance of power and authority each branch was given by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution.

      Who will be courageous enough to actually DO SOMETHING to hold the lying war criminals accountable...?  Who will be brave enough to file legislation to repeal the Patriot Acts and MCA '06, among other idiotic legislation that's been passed in the last seven and a half years that has only given the executive branch excess power...?

      We all send emails to our Reps and call them and sign petitions to urge the first steps toward impeachment or to both our Senators and Reps to stop voting in favor of financing Georgie's and Dickie's war... and it's all fallen on deaf ears.

      When does it stop?


      by NonnyO on Mon May 26, 2008 at 11:17:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  patience in not one of my strong points (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bablhous, NonnyO, lurks a lot

        and like you I am frustrated. I have spoken to personally to people who have told me if our next Pres. doesn't do something other countrys have the plans ready to go forward once Bush is out of office and no long immune because of being a Head of State.
        Phillippe Sands testified to this same thing when he was before Congress a few weeks ago. It is going to happen, the only questions left are by whom and how soon. If we do it , it could go a long way in restoring our standing in the world, and I think that would be best. If not by us, then I will support any effort by the EU countries to file charges.

        Molly Ivins reply when asked about Obama, Her answer: "Yes, he should run. He's the only Democrat with any `Elvis' to him."

        by SmileySam on Mon May 26, 2008 at 11:27:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, we are all frustrated (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bablhous, lurks a lot, SmileySam

          Well, those of us who have a conscience and are deeply ashamed of the violation of the Geneva Conventions and the illegal war crimes of an aggressive war (based on lies for oil) and torture all want to see justice done - the war was bad enough, but the torture stuff has made me crawl with shame and embarrassment.

          The sooner something is done about charging those who authorized all of this horror, the better.  I'm old; I want something done before I die.

          I believe the best we can hope for is that the next prez will sign on to the World Court and Georgie and Dickie and their criminal cohorts will be tried at The Hague - although, at this instant, I don't believe the next prez will sign on to the World Court.  (I so want to be wrong in thinking the latter, and will gladly eat humble pie if the next prez signs on to the World Court.)

          I don't believe anyone within the US has the guts to do anything about the war crimes and lies of Georgie and Dickie and their criminal cohorts.  They could be tried under USC Title 18 (War Crimes), but I don't expect that will be done.  Congress Critters would have to admit that they were foolishly bamboozled by known liars into giving them the authority to start an unjustified illegal war based on lies, and that makes them accessories after the fact if not an outright accessory before the fact.  And we all know Georgie and Dickie would take them down with them if a war crimes trial were ever started in this country.  I suspect justice will only be done at the World Court if/when the US signs on to it.


          by NonnyO on Mon May 26, 2008 at 11:45:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Let them be tried In Absentsia (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            the same way Italy is currently trying members of the CIA for Rendition. At least then if they step out of the country they can be arrested.

            Molly Ivins reply when asked about Obama, Her answer: "Yes, he should run. He's the only Democrat with any `Elvis' to him."

            by SmileySam on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:28:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site