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View Diary: Media & Gov't Torture Cover-up: Sen. Levin, Release the 12/01 SERE Docs (37 comments)

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  •  Tip Jar (21+ / 0-)

    War crimes have been committed, even former Army generals will admit to this. But if we, as the citizens of the United States, don't push Congress and the press on this, the story will be covered up.

    The greatest danger is that of allowing a limited narrative to become dominate. We must pursue every lead, and it all should be made public.

    Use of torture must end. My story shows that "stress inoculation" has been used as a cover for training torturers for decades.

    Thanks Sen. Levin, but there's more work to do.

    War is the statesman's game, the priest's delight, The lawyer's jest, the hired assassin's trade Invictus

    by Valtin on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 05:38:19 PM PDT

    •  And sorry, btw, everyone (8+ / 0-)

      for the rambling presentation.

      Sometimes one becomes so filled up with info that it's difficult to get it out in a meaningful way. I probably had material for three different diaries here.

      War is the statesman's game, the priest's delight, The lawyer's jest, the hired assassin's trade Invictus

      by Valtin on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 06:02:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  nice diary. check outsome otehr info too: (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Avila, Jeffersonian Democrat, Valtin, oxon

      SERE is scary (in fact, that rhymes...) and so is the former School of the Americas...

      http://en.wikipedia.org/...

      http://en.wikipedia.org/...

      http://en.wikipedia.org/...

      Where we train other country's (And our own) troops to torture.

      Nice work, thank you.

      •  no, SERE is invaluable (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Avila

        I am a SERE grad myself.  The whole purpose is to teach people how to cope with what may be done to you.

        What is atrocious, as Valtin's diaries point out, is that people are using such knowledge offensively.  It is like bio weapons research, supposedly we research bio weapons only to find innoculations against bio agents.  This is not bad.  Unfortunately with that knowledge is the capability to use it offensively, and that must be strictly controlled.

        The purpose of SERE is not to train our soldiers to torture but rather to resist torture.  Unfortunately, elements in our intelligence and military agencies have used that knowledge to inflict upon others and need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law - with Habeas Corpus, I will add.

        "I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend." - Thomas Jefferson

        by Jeffersonian Democrat on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 04:00:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  IMHO, there may be more to SERE than that (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Avila

          Certainly resistance to torture is a legitimate (and necessary) goal of military training, but there seems to be something else going on.  

          The military is a very sophisticated user of the social sciences.  See my comment above.  

          We are ALWAYS underdogs. The other side has infinite funds, skulduggery, domination of the media and legal system, and an electoral college advantage.

          by Bronx59 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 04:19:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am not sure I agree with (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Avila, Valtin, Bronx59

            your assessment below.  After all, I am here at Kos without feeling particularly loyal to the administration at large.

            I suspect that if there is any sort of secret programming cabal, it is during the Bush administration that it flourished.  Again, I went through in 87, it was nothing of the sort then.

            What I see happening is some yahoos thinking, "hey SERE, what a great idea to use it on our own prisoners".  Which I find disgusting in itself as these methods were used by the very same powers that stood against everything our nation supposedly stood for.  I tend to think that there is more of an occam's razor explanation.

            "I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend." - Thomas Jefferson

            by Jeffersonian Democrat on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 04:32:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I have known some very good individuals (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Bronx59

              who went through SERE training. It used to be obligatory for all in the Air Force, but not anymore.

              I made a mistake re attributing reverse-engineering SERE in the 1960s: it was the Army War College not SERE, and I will make public this correction.

              I think that rank and file who go through SERE are not guilty of torture. However, it is upper brass and/or civilian DoD/White House that are responsible. I don't the program is without fault, as research using soldiers as guinea pigs has definitely been used to gather data on forceful interrogation, and has migrated to CIA and elsewhere (School of the Americas training of foreign torturers, for instance).

              War is the statesman's game, the priest's delight, The lawyer's jest, the hired assassin's trade Invictus

              by Valtin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 05:17:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Too late to recommend (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Avila, Jeffersonian Democrat, Valtin

      but it's important you know how valuable what you are doing is.

      You are right to include everything: the DailyKos archives will be irreplaceable sources of documentation if we can ever again get on solid ground.

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