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View Diary: Saddam Captured; What's Next? (459 comments)

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  •  Re: Saddam Captured; What's Next? (none)
    This is the correct question. However, Bush has successfully refrained the question to be "get the bad guys". Now he can say he got the biggest baddest guy in the world.

    This plays into Bush's had perfectly. Set up a false threat, a diversionary sideshow, and then capture the bogeyman.

    MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

    As Dean's entire premise is the war was wrong, this gives huge propaganda points to Bush against Dean. Lieberman/Kerry/Gep can make the claim (successfully or not unknown) vindicating their early war votes. It also makes Dean and probably all democrats smaller on the world stage (except Clark who is in the Hague testifying against Milosovic)

    All extremists are irrational and should be exposed

    by SeanF on Sun Dec 14, 2003 at 01:27:48 PM PST

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    •  Re: Saddam Captured; What's Next? (none)
      sorry, not "refrained" but "reframed"

      All extremists are irrational and should be exposed

      by SeanF on Sun Dec 14, 2003 at 01:31:20 PM PST

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    •  Re: Saddam Captured; What's Next? (none)
      Sorry I don't see it this way at all. The was on Iraq was and is a giant bungling, lying fiasco. Saddam's capture might shorten the fiasco somewhat and waste fewer lives, but that's it.

      We've captured the Bush Admin's public enemy number one. Our country's public enemy number one, bin Laden, is still at large.

      •  Re: Saddam Captured; What's Next? (none)
        Keith, of course you are right. But 51% (or whatever the number is) of the American public still support the pres. so being right might not be enough. I was talking of how the Bush Administration can spin this to justify their illegal war, and divert our attention from the terrrible fiasco this whole thing is.

        All extremists are irrational and should be exposed

        by SeanF on Sun Dec 14, 2003 at 02:33:20 PM PST

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        •  Re: Saddam Captured; What's Next? (none)
          That could happen, I certainly expect the Bush Administration to spin this. We need a candidate who is strong and skilled enough to keep the Bush Administration from getting away with it.
        •  My two bits... (none)
          We take Baghdad...and soldiers die.

          We declare "Mission Accomplished" on an aircraft carrier....and soldiers still die.

          We capture Saddam....and soldiers will still die.

          We'll have a trial and perhaps, sorta, kinda, an election, maybe...and soldiers will still die.

          At some point, a majority of the American public will see that, no matter what we do, lots of folks keep dying, and want to get out of Iraq.

          Or perhaps at least boot out the guy in charge of all the stuff that results in all our troops getting killed.

          The alternative will be to become even more repressive, even more willing to use our firepower more "broadly".  This was what was happening in the end stages of our direct involvement in Vietnam, and it was in large part what led to the massacres at such spots as My Lai.

          I personally will work that much harder to get the former result, because the latter result will reap a whirlwind I don't want to contemplate.

    •  Re: Saddam Captured; What's Next? (none)
      How does Dean have any "fault" or "gain" in this? If GWB is so damn right - what again are the reason(s) for spending $150 Billion, placing 130,000 troops in a foreign country, turning this government inside out, and generally destroying every international alliance?

      What are the reasons???
      What are the reasons???
      What are the reasons???

      Capturing Saddam does NOT make this a justified war.
      ?

      PS: How does Bush spin his fantasy about this insurgency being coordinated by a guy hiding in a hole?

      PSS: Bush is hiding as well. His hole is just nicer, ie - White House!

      "anyone but Bush!"

    •  Re: Saddam Captured; What's Next? (none)
      How does Dean have any "fault" or "gain" in this? If GWB is so damn right - what again are the reason(s) for spending $150 Billion, placing 130,000 troops in a foreign country, turning this government inside out, and generally destroying every international alliance?

      What are the reasons???
      What are the reasons???
      What are the reasons???

      Capturing Saddam does NOT make this a justified war.
      ?

      PS: How does Bush spin his fantasy about this insurgency being coordinated by a guy hiding in a hole?

      PSS: Bush is hiding as well. His hole is just nicer, ie - White House!

      "anyone but Bush!"

      •  Re: Saddam Captured; What's Next? (none)
        Bushhater,

        You are talking facts, but I was talking perceptions. It's all a matter of what claims can Bush get away with? Without Saddam, he was very limited. With Saddam, he has far more rhetorical ammunition. It sucks, but it's still true.

        The sticky part is that the only perceptions that matter are (unfortunately) the spineless non-thinkers in the electorate who could possibly be convinced this war was a good idea in the first place. Those folks are very susceptible to demagoguery and "might makes right".

        Under wise leadership, the capture of Saddam could be leveraged a bunch of ways to improve our standing in Iraq. It would be long-term disastrous if this ends up re-electing Bush to the Whitehouse.

        All extremists are irrational and should be exposed

        by SeanF on Sun Dec 14, 2003 at 07:25:10 PM PST

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        •  Re: Saddam Captured; What's Next? (none)
          Without Saddam, he was very limited. With Saddam, he has far more rhetorical ammunition. It sucks, but it's still true.

          Actually, I would venture the exact opposite. Before, Saddam and Saddam loyalists were a convenient bogeyman on which most of the trouble in Iraq could be blamed. Now, with Saddam accounted for and out of the equation in Iraq, it will become more and more obvious that this was a false premise--that most of the opposition comes from nationalist Iraqis who hated Saddam and want us gone too, and foreign irregulars who are drawn to our presence.

          In other words, Bush now has one less scapegoat on which to blame the deteriorating situation in Iraq. His rhetorical options are more limited now, not less.

          •  Re: Saddam Captured; What's Next? (none)
            Catsy,

            This is also a likely scenario. I guess it will boil down to how it plays out on the ground. All the happy Iraqis on tv today is great PR for the pres. If that does not materialize into security improvements, then you are right. It really will be a quagmire.

            All extremists are irrational and should be exposed

            by SeanF on Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 03:28:59 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

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