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View Diary: District Court: What FISA Did, What the FISA Capitulation Does (244 comments)

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  •  How the Coverup Works (4+ / 0-)

    Right now, there are specific lawsuits by parties with standing to sue, who have the power to force telcos to talk in public (or even in a private session over "secret" evidence/testimony). If telcos get immunity, those lawsuits will die. No new ones like them will be started, for the same reason: the probable cause for discovering evidence from the telcos will disappear, because immunity will make it moot.

    All roads to the telcos will lead to immunity, and those roads will dead end.

    The the other roads, that lead to the government, are all protected by "Executive Privilege" (the strongest, most traditional way the president's henchmen are above the law, themselves immune to requirements that they testify). Once Obama is president, the crooks who could usefully testify will be long gone.

    That's why the legal experts say this immunity is a strategic catastrophe.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:59:23 AM PDT

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    •  Lawsuits are an awful way to obtain disclosure (0+ / 0-)

      we wouldn't even be considering them as means to force stuff out in the open unless the president and congress didn't leave us with that as the only choice.

      Once Obama is president, he picks up the phone (current employees) or sends out an FBI agent (past employees).

      If anyone wants to play hardball, congressional subpoenas will issue without opposition from the president.

      Really, civil lawsuits are only being considered since Bush and current congress make it the only "alternative" left.

      It's a people-powered movement of individuals. So just say it yourself and stop calling on Obama to be your puppet.

      by Inland on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:43:55 PM PDT

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      •  No They Won't (0+ / 0-)

        we wouldn't even be considering them as means to force stuff out in the open unless the president and congress didn't leave us with that as the only choice.

        Once Obama is president, he picks up the phone (current employees) or sends out an FBI agent (past employees).

        If anyone wants to play hardball, congressional subpoenas will issue without opposition from the president.

        Why would Obama and Congress do that? They are already actively opposing this kind of justice with everything they've got. It's the same Congress.

        And once Bush gets them immunity/amnesty from Congress and pardons and amnesty from his own desk in his final days, they will be safely home. Because they'll all use that immunity/amnesty  as arguments that "Congress said it was OK", and the pardons/amnesty from Bush as "the Executive and the Legislature agreed they were immune".

        Or we can stop the amnesty now. Bush will still pardon/immunize/amnesty them, or try to. But by then the lawsuits will already have dragged out of them through discovery plenty of evidence that can be used to deal with the pardons/immunities/amnesties.

        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

        by DocGonzo on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 03:25:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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