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View Diary: Russ Feingold asks you to "Stand with the Constitution." (284 comments)

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  •  There are some anwers (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wader, kurt

    The least damning one is that FISA review took too long for the Bush admin.  The most likely is that there are some real abuses going on.  

    I'm not arguing that the FISA court means nothing.  But it's track record shows that it doesn't mean all that much.

    Elect him first, perfect him later. The stakes are too high to fuck around my friends.

    by snout on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 12:04:52 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  the main point is separation of powers (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kurt, Orange County Liberal, Briee

      The FISA court, though it is secret, is part of the Judiciary and not totally in the bag to any particular administration.

      I know that the FISA court may sometimes take too long to review the thousands of wiretaps that our government  undertakes but perhaps the fact that the Feds know that they need to have a warrant and some sort of probable cause keeps them from running amok.

      When you realize that this White House has blatantly and illegally hired True believers in Justice and in the intelligence services, than you want some safeguards on their use of government surveillance.  

      When you see how this White House has totally FUBARed Iraq, Gitmo and the War on Terror, then you can see the argument for some minimal amount of accountability and checks and balances over their asses.

      As for giving Obama the same licence and lack of accountability that these thugs have seized for themselves, well I hope Obama is better than Bush but as of now there are no assurances that is so.  After Bush ran as a compassionate consertative before winning the presidency and no one knew he would take the hard right turn he took after 9/11.

      Trust no leaders, they all want the power.

      •  asdf (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kurt, fayea

        The FISA court, though it is secret, is part of the Judiciary and not totally in the bag to any particular administration.

        The FISA court is chosen by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, so any pretense of being independent is only pretense.  John Roberts is choosing your watchdogs.  That's the reality of the situation.

        I know that the FISA court may sometimes take too long to review the thousands of wiretaps that our government  undertakes but perhaps the fact that the Feds know that they need to have a warrant and some sort of probable cause keeps them from running amok.

        I stipulated that in my intial post.  But with a ratio of of 22,990/5 - I'm thinking that the level of inhibition is pretty minor.

        When you realize that this White House has blatantly and illegally hired True believers in Justice and in the intelligence services, than you want some safeguards on their use of government surveillance.  

        When you see how this White House has totally FUBARed Iraq, Gitmo and the War on Terror, then you can see the argument for some minimal amount of accountability and checks and balances over their asses

        .

        Sure.  But as I said, John Roberts is picking the watchdogs.  The word "minimal" might be too optimistic a word for the oversight we can expect.

        As for giving Obama the same licence and lack of accountability that these thugs have seized for themselves, well I hope Obama is better than Bush but as of now there are no assurances that is so.  After Bush ran as a compassionate consertative before winning the presidency and no one knew he would take the hard right turn he took after 9/11.

         

        I don't blindly trust anyone.  But frankly this situation has no hope of getting on track without the election of a benign President.  I have as much faith in Obama as I can muster in any pol - and frankly we have no functional choice but to put our trust in him at this point.  Once he's in office we'll have to hold him as accountable as anyone, but between now and Novemeber you might as well look at his as the messiah, because the alternative is a whole lot fucking worse.

        Elect him first, perfect him later. The stakes are too high to fuck around my friends.

        by snout on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 12:56:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  FISA judges (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          zett, Orange County Liberal

          are appointed by Roberts as of now, there are 11 of them, each serve for 7 years, nonrenewable.  There is also a FISA court of review to oversee the FISA court, composed of 3 judges.

          But though perhaps some of the judges are stooges for Roberts, not all can be.  Also the Feds cannot shop for compliant judges among the court.  They can only appeal the judge's ruling to the FISA court of review.

          I believe that we hold candidates to their positions, giving them some leeway to bob and weave as they try to win.  But I don't like Obama's cave in on this issue and it makes me more skeptical about his presidency.

          I know that McCain is worse, mostly because he's a nutso warmonger.  I vote Democrat always.  But I don't like or trust Obama, he's another Kerry or Mondale to me now.  Just a regular pol.

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