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View Diary: Russ Feingold asks you to "Stand with the Constitution." (284 comments)

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  •  your numbers do not show (9+ / 0-)

    how many times our government wanted to spy on innocent people but were prevented from doing so with the present checks and balances (warrants,etc).

    Fear of exposure and breaking the law kept them in check.  Under the new gutting of FISA - they would be able to spy on all of us at whim and no accountabilty.  No shame of exposure, jail time, or departmental heads rolling (btw, that's a figure of speech)

    You can't choose sides on a round planet.

    by IamLorax on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:16:13 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  If you read my original comment again... (0+ / 0-)

      ...you'll notice that I stipulated that fact.  But with a ratio of 22, 990 to 5 - it does not appear to me that they're all that inhibited.

      Elect him first, perfect him later. The stakes are too high to fuck around my friends.

      by snout on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:51:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, you don't get it (5+ / 0-)

        They never asked permission (warrants) for stuff they knew would be illegal and rejected in the first place!  They didn't even attempt it.  That's a whole different ball game than the five rejects.

        You have false reasoning.  

        You only have numbers for the stuff they thought would pass muster (the 5) and didn't.  You don't have numbers for the stuff they dare not try to pass through the system checks -

        Now with doing away accountability - they will have the green light for the dirtiest shit they would have never even dared asked for a warrant to do.

        You can't choose sides on a round planet.

        by IamLorax on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 02:17:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh really. You know this? (0+ / 0-)

          I'm saying that a ratio of 5 out of 22,990 looks an awful lot like a rubber stamp to me.  If somehow you feel comforted by that number, we'll have to agree to disagree - but again...my original post said the following:

          Of course an argument can be made that the existence of FISA stopped some operations from even being attempted

          So please drop the pretense that you need to explain this to me.

          As I've pointed out now a few times elsewhere on this thread, the FISA court is appointed by the Cheif Justice of the Supreme Court, so the oversight we had for most of those years was largely in the hands of folks appointed by William Rehnquist.  Going forward it's John Roberts who names these judges.  Given this...please excuse me if I don't bow to FISA as a meaningful safeguard of our privacy rights.  

          Elect him first, perfect him later. The stakes are too high to fuck around my friends.

          by snout on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 02:41:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  How about - stop trivializing the "stopped (3+ / 0-)

            operations" ???? It could only be a rubber stamp if you ignore the spying they Did Not attempt.  It would be stupid to ignore this.  

            If it didn't matter, if they already had a rubber stamp - why would they be trying to change it?

            Sheeesk

            You can't choose sides on a round planet.

            by IamLorax on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 04:07:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  You make it look like 5 out of 22,990 (3+ / 0-)

            but it's more nuanced than that.

            According to Wikipedia, the court began demanding modifications in the requests in increasing amounts after 2002.

            This chart shows -

            2000 1 request modified
            2001 2 requests modified
            2002 2 requests modified (both modifications later       reversed)
            2003 79 requests modified (out of 1724 granted)
            2004 94 requests modified (out of 1758)

            Perhaps this is why the Bush admin. began to go around FISA.  They couldn't stand even the friendly scrutiny of the FISA court.

            It may not be much of a safeguard as you say, but it is better than nothing at all.

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