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View Diary: Obama's statement on FISA is "worthless" (174 comments)

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  •  How many rights are you willing to give up (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chechecule, YetiMonk

    in order to win at all cost? Giving up more of our Constitutional rights to win would, indeed, be a pyrrhic victory.

    "They could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality...and were not sufficiently interested in public events to notice what was happening."

    by Sagebrush Bob on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:07:01 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  If and when Obama wins (8+ / 0-)

      we will realize that we have given up no rights, and gained back those that we lost during the last 8 years.
      If McCain wins, we will continue to lose rights, since he has promised to continue Bush's policies, and the Republicans will conclude that they cannot lose a national election regardless of the circumstances and are free to do whatever they want, which includes further rigging our electoral system to ensure a one party regime.
      What about this do you not understand?
      Do you think the Constitution and Bill Of Rights are more likely to be safeguarded by Obama or McCain?

      •  Your question (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        YetiMonk

        Do you think the Constitution and Bill Of Rights are more likely to be safeguarded by Obama or McCain?

        Despite what many on your side keep implying, almost all of us opposing FISA recognize that Obama is more likely to safeguard the Constitution and Bill of Rights and will vote for him.

        However, we know better than simply trust any one man to do what's right. As responsible citizens, we can't stop at merely voting for our representatives, we are obligated to hold them accountable. If we don't do that, we may as well just elect a king.

        Even Barack Obama has said that he will make mistakes. When it comes to a matter of this much importance, even Barack Obama needs to be held accountable.

        "They could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality...and were not sufficiently interested in public events to notice what was happening."

        by Sagebrush Bob on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:20:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So hold him responsible (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Jezreel, Alohilani, fieldmarshal

          after he is elected President.
          Don't do anything, and I mean anything, that may reduce his chances of being elected.
          What about this is too complicated to understand?  Are you too high and mighty to care about the effects of your conduct on the question of who will be our next President?

          •  Sounds to me (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Sagebrush Bob

            like you'd like simple one party rule and just have the leaders announced. That would certainly help you reach your goal of nobody doing anything that might reduce the prospective leaders chances of being elected.

            •  You sound like a Republican on that one (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Christin, smartguy11, Jezreel, Alohilani

              they're the ones who want one party rule.
              I just want the right candidate to win and his supporters to not screw it up.
              And that candidate is Obama.

              •  you do realize that what small clout we have (0+ / 0-)

                evaporates after election day, right? But your stifling of dissent is very republican-esque. Dissent is not treason.

                Obama is winning handily and if our support were that important to him then maybe he's just smart enough to take that into account. Apparently our support isn't that important any more and he is "glad to take (his) lumps".

                With or without us, beating mccain should be a cakewalk for nearly anyone, especially Obama.

                •  I don't think you need clout (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  smartguy11, Jezreel, Alohilani

                  I suspect Obama agrees with your position and would be eager for an opportunity to revisit FISA after he is elected.  But he won't get to do that if he doesn't first get elected.
                  And I don't think this will be a cakewalk.  The MSM will do everything in their power, which is considerable, to sink Obama and help McCain.  Have you already forgotten 2000 and 2004?  The last thing we need is dissension within the ranks to feed the media frenzy.

                  •  you are a very trusting soul (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Sagebrush Bob

                    and take the kindest possible view of all of Obama's actions. I'm more inclined to take him at his word and hold him to it.

                    trust and politics just do not mix.

                    •  Regardless, there is no doubt that (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Jezreel

                      Obama will do more for us and the Constitution than McCain, not to mention every other problem facing America.
                      But forget it, the future of the world is not as important as you maintaining your ideological purity, so screw it, hand the election to McBush so we can have 4 more years of the same.
                      See you in Guantanamo.

                      •  I'm tired of people trotting out the boogeyman (0+ / 0-)

                        defense to stifle dissent.

                        mccain has almost no chance of winning. Obama could increase that lead into a record setting landslide if he kept his activist base happy and enthusiastic by doing what he said he would.

                        Enthusiasm was his biggest weapon and he seems to be willingly throwing it away as he panders to a non-existant and mythical "center" that is actually just a construct used to keep shifting debates to the right.

              •  You're projecting (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                YetiMonk

                "They could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality...and were not sufficiently interested in public events to notice what was happening."

                by Sagebrush Bob on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 09:10:49 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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