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View Diary: I am so tempted to violate copyright (177 comments)

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  •  that's right. We only straif wedding parties (12+ / 0-)

    have contractors rape little girls, shoot men in front of their wives and children, attack cars for no reason, blast down houses and destroy mosques at the very time that we preside over one of the largest refugee movements outside of Africa - ever. Only Pakistsan-India's post war movement and mass deportation was larger.

    WE CREATED 4 MILLION HOMELESS, we killed more than a MILLION IRAQIS, we injured probably three times as many, and worst of all, no news organizations survive there long enough to report on it.
    we just shoot them if they get too close to the truth.

    No offense, but you are full of shit. Or seriously uninformed. The truth is there is no difference between Bush and Karadzic, especially in terms of numbers of dead, tortured and wounded.

    What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

    by agnostic on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 07:00:02 AM PDT

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    •  On the eve of shock and awe the UN estimated (7+ / 0-)

      the population of Iraq at about 24 million, to date something over 8 million of them are either dead, maimed or refugees. There is no difference between Bush and Karadzic, unless it is even with Bush's stunning destruction of a country, the people and their culture he most probably will never answer for his crimes.

    •  Maybe you're right (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Maybe the idea of moral superiority in war holds inherent hyppocrisy. But if you take that position, I would say you would have to place equal blame on the Bosniaks and Croats who committed counter atrocities against the Serbs. And it really negates any rational to have intervened at all.

      I can't deal with that. I still want to believe there is some path open to us that gives us validation to stop the continuous shelling of a city for THREE YEARS.  And I'd like to think there's a difference between a "warrior poet" who thought it was romantic to slaughter people in order to regain a political majority for his people and people who reacted to that by taking matters into their own hands and fighting back.

      I will inevitably lose that argument. I know that. But I do so different shades in all of these things. And intent does count, even if the overall effect is the same.

      The fact of the matter is Iraq was fucked before we went in, it's fucked now. I opposed the war because I thought it was part of a plan that would lead to a broader conflict and it nearly has. But I have no illusions that there is or was any kind of peaceful solution to what was happening there other than letting Hussein die and even that was iffy.

      There was bound to be an outbreak of sectarian violence at some point when the inevitable change of power came. Again, this is what happened when Tito died in Yugoslavia. As much as I despise Bush and the neocons, I do not think you can place the blame for a civil war solely on their shoulders. If you wanna hide rate me or flame me for saying that go ahead. Like I said, I'm prepared to be told or even proven that I'm wrong.

      This situation was always going to get messy. And it sucks for the people who get caught in between. Some would argue that if we had done something about Hussein earlier, as we eventually did in Bosnia, things could have been different. In Yugoslavia you had one group of people backed up by a world power and a rising military power and another group of people with virtually no army or weapons. The stronger group did not even put up the illusion of restraint but in fact, romanticized their calculated extermination.

      •  nothing you say is flamable (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        northsylvania, mrkvica, YucatanMan, Philpm

        or inflamable. TO the contrary, you present your view and thoughts coherently, and I agree that we disagree.

        We put saddam into power, we armed him, we gave him WMD, and we gave him intel to do our bidding. Then, we deposed him. In the process, we broke the country, and we own the mess we created.

        There is no question that war crimes were committed in Bosnia, Serbia, etc., just as there were war crimes were committed by us in IraqNam. The question is what to do about it.

        I have this twisted, dark painful ache in my belly which is completely based on bean-powered gas, or much more likely, the idea that between Cass Sunstein and other aides, Barack Obama will refuse to pick the scab off of our war crimes. It is made worse by being certain that Nancy Pelousy's lame excuses I heard at Netroots represent our future policy and direction, not simply a personal observation on her part. If so, our country has lost its moral compass and will never get it back.

        War crimes, impeachment, special counsel - these are the MINIMUM we need to do. Now. And even more so, in January.

        What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

        by agnostic on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 07:22:14 AM PDT

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