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View Diary: Hey You Libertarians! Get Off My Blog. (302 comments)

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  •  I'd like to add to that (5+ / 0-)

    What part of your libertarianism is going to bring about equal rights for my girlfriend and I?

    The vote is "Basic Democracy #1". YOU must preserve it. -edscan

    by BoiseBlue on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 05:12:16 PM PDT

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    •  Not sure. What discrimination do you face? (0+ / 0-)

      I've probably got a good answer for you.  But need more to go on.

      Results count for more than intentions do.

      by VA Classical Liberal on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 05:30:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh, I'm sorry (4+ / 0-)

        You're unaware of the discrimination that gays and lesbians face?

        The vote is "Basic Democracy #1". YOU must preserve it. -edscan

        by BoiseBlue on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 05:59:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  not all "communities" (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kingubu, Philoguy, Balam, BoiseBlue

          welcome all people. The libertarian embrace of "community" is frequently code for keeping the wrong people out.

          And we all know who they are.

          Henry Wallace (1944): "The American fascists are most easily recognized by their deliberate perversion of truth and fact."

          by TNThorpe on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 06:04:55 PM PDT

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        •  To be fair... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          VA Classical Liberal

          ... he probably just didn't know you were gay.

          Just sayin'...

          The goal is not to bring your adversaries to their knees but to their senses. -- Mahatma Gandhi

          by kingubu on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 06:11:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The comment he/she replied to (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kingubu

            Specifically noted that I am gay. And even so, how does that change the question that I posed and the non-answer given?

            The vote is "Basic Democracy #1". YOU must preserve it. -edscan

            by BoiseBlue on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 06:14:48 PM PDT

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            •  Hmmm... (3+ / 0-)

              What part of your libertarianism is going to bring about equal rights for my girlfriend and I?

              You can probably put it down to gender bias on my part but I don't see where that comment specifically mentions that you are gay.

              But, whatever, yeah, libertarianism fails to address minority rights in your case just the same as it does everywhere else. Its a too-clever dormroom ideology that sounds great in the abstract but only leads to epic failure in the real world.

              The goal is not to bring your adversaries to their knees but to their senses. -- Mahatma Gandhi

              by kingubu on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 06:21:50 PM PDT

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              •  Again, as noted below (0+ / 0-)

                You're right, if I don't say "I'm a female" in front of behind that question, it might be hard to decipher. I don't think it takes a lot of common sense, but that's beside the point. Even if I was a male, what makes a married couple more priviledged than a non-married couple?

                The vote is "Basic Democracy #1". YOU must preserve it. -edscan

                by BoiseBlue on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 06:28:28 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Nothing (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  SciVo

                  At least, not to most libertarians (I am not one, btw).  Most either support marriage equality (good) or want to replace all marriages with a private contract system (insane).  I don't think this is an area where libertarians are particularly the enemy.  

                  As far as why unmarried couples are excluded...the government has a rational interest in promoting stable two-partner relationships.  Actually, it is kind of funny, because your question gets at the root of the extreme libertarian critique: the government has no basis for preferring heterosexual or homosexual couples to singles or groups.

              •  But I talked about gay rights in the dang diary! (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Alec82

                I'm on your side Boise.

                Please read the diary.

                Results count for more than intentions do.

                by VA Classical Liberal on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 08:36:16 PM PDT

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                •  I read the diary (0+ / 0-)

                  Why do you think I didn't? You're simple little solution "I don't care what you do" does nothing to advance equal rights. Nothing. That is just plain apathy and it completely ignores the fact that while you don't personally care, a lot of other people do.

                  The vote is "Basic Democracy #1". YOU must preserve it. -edscan

                  by BoiseBlue on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 09:31:19 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  He was probably unaware of your gender (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              VA Classical Liberal, Marja E

              The comment he replied to just described you as having a girlfriend.  I don't know that he was aware you were female.

            •  Actually you didn't say you are gay. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Alec82

              You just said your "girlfriend". I didn't want to assume.

              Please take a look at my direct response to your question.

              Results count for more than intentions do.

              by VA Classical Liberal on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 07:04:52 PM PDT

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        •  VACL was more likely unaware of your gender. n/t (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          VA Classical Liberal, Alec82

          I also believe we must impeach Antonin Scalia for protection from his inhumanity.

          by SciVo on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 06:12:54 PM PDT

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          •  Seriously (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kingubu

            You'd have to be pretty dense to not understand what is referred to in that question.

            And even if was too vague for anyone, it's still a legitimate question: Why do married couples get more rights than non-married couples?

            I'm still waiting for a reasonable answer to this from Libs.

            The vote is "Basic Democracy #1". YOU must preserve it. -edscan

            by BoiseBlue on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 06:18:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  State defined marriage is hardly libertarian. (4+ / 0-)

              The right of any consenting individuals to contract as they see fit is a principle generally recognized by libertarians.

              Running against Herb "WIRETAP" Kohl in 2012. $1/year. Cash preferred.
              Masel4Senate 1214 E. Mifflin, Madison, WI 53703

              by ben masel on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 06:35:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That may be true (0+ / 0-)

                But it's certainly not in any libertarian that I've known.

                The vote is "Basic Democracy #1". YOU must preserve it. -edscan

                by BoiseBlue on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 06:41:54 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Wisconsin's LP convention voted unanimously (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  VA Classical Liberal, Alec82, Marja E

                  to oppose the silly marriage Amendment on the ballot here in '06. 99 to 0.

                  Running against Herb "WIRETAP" Kohl in 2012. $1/year. Cash preferred.
                  Masel4Senate 1214 E. Mifflin, Madison, WI 53703

                  by ben masel on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 06:50:56 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Are most of the libertarians you know in Idaho? (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  VA Classical Liberal, Marja E

                  Because there are some westerners who I would describe as anti-state who are also incredibly bigoted.  The vast majority of self-described libertarians I know are absolutely opposed to sodomy laws, marriage restrictions, efforts to push homosexuality out of sexual education, etc.  I haven't really known an anti-gay libertarian.

                  My uncle, a small l libertarian and a big R Republican, likes the idea of same-sex marriage precisely because he hopes it will result in the government getting rid of state sanctioned marriages.  It is a pipe dream of his, but there you have it.

            •  You may owe me an apology. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Marja E

              There are many reasons a male/female couple could be descriminate against.

              South Carolina took 103 year to recognize my sister's "one man/one woman" marriage just because too damn many idiots don't like her husband's skin.

              Results count for more than intentions do.

              by VA Classical Liberal on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 07:11:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  I was unaware you are gay/lesbian. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Alec82, Marja E

          If I was short in my answer, it's just because I was having trouble keeping up with the comments.  Didn't know if you were gay, inter-racial (my family situation) or what.

          With that in mind, my libertarianism will help you in two ways.  I already said in the diary, that your sexuality is none of my business and I've written here here about what libers think is the right policy on gay marriage/rights.  If more people thought like this, you would many fewer problems.

          The other way is simple profit.  The company I work for offers full benefits for domestic partners.  It's one of the more progressive companies there is.  And we do it because gays/lesbians are a very important source of talent and creativity.

          We can't afford to ignore you.  We need you and we reward you because of that need.

          Somewhere in here I talked about Jackie Robinson and the US military's integration of blacks.  I've lost track of all the threads, but the same point applies.

          Results count for more than intentions do.

          by VA Classical Liberal on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 07:02:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Most libertarians... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VA Classical Liberal, SciVo

      ...support marriage equality, although there are undoubtedly many who would prefer to remove government recognition of marriage.  How in the hell that would be accomplished without creating an unmitigated disaster is beyond me.

    •  What part lof Authoritarianism has brought you (0+ / 0-)

      equal rights?

      Running against Herb "WIRETAP" Kohl in 2012. $1/year. Cash preferred.
      Masel4Senate 1214 E. Mifflin, Madison, WI 53703

      by ben masel on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 06:30:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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