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View Diary: "I can't vote for Obama because he's the Antichrist" (141 comments)

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  •  He's not much of a Catholic, in fact, (15+ / 0-)

    since Catholics do NOT believe in "the Rapture" and all that nonsense.

    Maybe he ought to get to the Catholic church more often. He most definitely would not be taught that Barack is the anti-Christ since actually properly catechized Catholics don't buy the right wing evangelical stuff, either.

    A more sophisticated understanding of the last book of the New Testament obtains in proper, actually Vatican-led Catholicism.

    It's about politics all right, but politics back when it was written. And that, as you might know, was a few years back.

    Let's get some Democracy for America

    by murphy on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 06:56:49 AM PDT

    •  That's what I find shocking (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boofdah, snafubar, jarhead5536

      that a Catholic would say this.

      I trust Barack Obama.

      by casperr on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 07:02:46 AM PDT

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      •  I'm shocked, but from an atheists point of (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nanobubble

        view the fact that any person of the kind of faith that is required to be a Catholic can be brainwashed into believing something else equally bizarre is not surprising.

        Faith turns off conscious thought; that's why he's aways smiling and I'm so fucking pissed.

        George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

        by snafubar on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 07:07:58 AM PDT

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        •  Unfortunately (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          snafubar, roadlion

          your misunderstanding of what Catholicism is really about is way too prevelent in this country.

          That conversation is for another time, though.

          Faith most definitely does NOT turn off conscious thought. In fact, a lively faith makes one much more socially responsible, which means a lot more thinking about how one's behavior impacts those in one's community, locally and world-wide, as well as one's responsibility for taking care of God's creation.

          Let's get some Democracy for America

          by murphy on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 07:19:35 AM PDT

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          •  sorry, Murph. I am firmly in the camp that says (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            nanobubble

            religion is there solely to provide answers when the human brain fails to find one that is obvious. And although you personally or many in your circle may have deep levels of introspection, reasoning, and conscientious thought, i think you and I can agree that there are more sheep in the religious camp than there are at the apostates reunion.

            I'm not challenging your faith nor reasoning specifically, but I'm also not the one who coined the phrase "let go and let God".

            I think it is fair to say that in the minds of a great many people of all religions that their purpose in seeking a higher power is to surrender their thought because it's simpler and less burdensome to follow someone else's lead. Especially if you can keep believing that the leader can never be wrong.  

            The beauty/tragedy of religion is that even when the thought that was followed goes horribly wrong, the truly convicted can still peacefully lower their head, clasp their hands palm to palm, close their eyes and say "God's will has still been done".

            That's not a mindset that is built on conscious thought.

            Again, I'm speaking in generalities here; I'm not saying it isn't possible for there to be an intellectual person of faith, I'm sayinng that as a rule, most people trade one for the other.

            George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

            by snafubar on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 07:50:05 AM PDT

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        •  Actually... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          murphy, Hastur, Reepicheep

          Faith turns off conscious thought

          ...it doesn't; the stupidity of many who profess to have faith notwithstanding.

          Men who claim to speak on God's behalf said faith and reason were mutually exclusive and that skepticism was sin; God says in the bible to 'prove ALL things and hold fast what is good' and you cannot abide by that without a healthy skepticism.

          God can abide our questions, our unbelief and even our disagreement.

          Men who grasp for power and do so in the name of God as rationalization for their evil are the ones who find questioning, skepticism and unbelief untenable... but only because it reveals them to be the schmucks they are.

    •  Thanks...beat me to it (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      murphy, boofdah, Reepicheep, snafubar, beltane

      We're just not that into "the rapture" and the crowd that does most of its thinking with its "left behind" thinks we're one of the groups going first up on Satan's roasting spit.

      Methinks the neighbor doth excuse make too much.

    •  There's a much longer backstory (5+ / 0-)

      about this; my cousin (Mary, of course) is also a devout Catholic who gave me the same screed about abortion and damnation, and when I explained to her that here in PA Catholics rule the roost by their numbers, but in other parts of the country Catholics are looked down upon like Jews and other groups hateful people like to pick on, she's clueless. I told her of John Hagee and she said, "Who?"

      They've got no idea that Catholicism is not the world's religion. If you asked them, they'd tell you they believe that 9 out of ten people on the planet are Catholic, only because in our part of the world the number is more like 999 out of 1000.

      This to me, is the larger, tragic sickness of the Republican party - they have managed to align groups of Guns/God/Gays voters who, if locked in a room together after they voted, would destroy each other. And they train themselves to ignore that.

      George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

      by snafubar on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 07:06:08 AM PDT

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    •  My parents' Catholic church has a priest... (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      murphy, SherwoodB, snafubar, roadlion, beltane

      ...who was ABSOLUTELY against the Iraq war, and kept his mouth shut during the 2004 election. He is a Carmelite, which from what I understand is similar to the Jesuit branch of Catholicism for its "thinking-man's" brand of Catholicism. We need MORE of that in religion, I feel.

      I no longer practice Catholicism (or any religion for that matter), but I do realize that many Catholic churches are left-leaning, "social justice" organizations focused on ending poverty and the death penalty, and do not support ANY actions of either the Bush Administration and Republicans OR the right-wing evangelical movement.

    •  Seriously, I can't underline that enough (5+ / 0-)

      Screw the election. Tell him he is seriously endangering his soul by listening to that godawful heresy.

      I know who Obama's veep will be. You can too!

      by slaney black on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 07:15:34 AM PDT

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      •  I'll try that, but right now i'm resigned to (0+ / 0-)

        discussing the weather from now on and hope that stays polite.

        You realize that he's convinced that voting for Obama is the thing endangering his soul, and I don't know how much influence an atheist is going to have on matters of faith.

        - I'll just drop back to my original point - people belive what they want ot believe, that's the whole point. Logic, reason, and truth have very often little to do with it.

        George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

        by snafubar on Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 09:44:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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