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View Diary: John McCain Wants Cindy To Do What?!? (373 comments)

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  •  ok me too (0+ / 0-)

    but from the female perspective, she's been a very willing participant.  that irks me way more than his miserable, macho, condescending attitude.
    she's a slap in the face of every woman who's ever stood up for herself.

    "I aimed at the public's heart, and by accident I hit it in the stomach." - Upton Sinclair

    by kathleen518 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 12:32:36 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I think that's part of the culture (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GrouchoKossak, kathleen518

      that she comes from and why she may have been appealing to McCain rather than a "damaged" wife that had perhaps evolved during his absence of the late 60's. Like a petulant child she may know no better and it serves as a stark contrast to remind us how far some have come.

      As I have said I could just imagine putting my wife out there like that followed quickly by disoriented feeling and wonderment that the lights had gone out. Again, I take no offense at the gratuitous sexual objectification of women (or men if that floats your boat), but just the presumptuousness (there's that word again) of him putting her out there like that shows me that he doesn't get it. If he understands the gravity of national office he should not belittle her place in it, if the presidency is sacred then by inference the office of first lady should be also, hence, he thinks that women are not due the same respect as men.

      Does that make sense? This really annoys me.

      •  you make perfect sense (0+ / 0-)

        and i'm glad you're annoyed.
        and that you have the insight that you do.
        i don't know how old you are, but part of what's wrong w/mccain IS his age - he's a part of a particular culture as well, not that i think that is any kind of rational excuse for either of them.
        you've figured it out.  lots of men have.  my dad is john mccain's age, and he's figured it out. my mother is 70 and gets SO upset w/cindy mccain, because she's the antithesis of what so many women in my mom's generation worked so hard for.

        i think what pisses me off the most is that yeah, this is the presidency we're talking about, this is a potential president and his first lady. which is why it was so twilight zone-ish to me in the first place.
        geez, what a jump from wet t-shirts eh?
        thank god for places like this...

        "I aimed at the public's heart, and by accident I hit it in the stomach." - Upton Sinclair

        by kathleen518 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:04:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  i just read your diary (0+ / 0-)

          from friday, and i'm glad i did (wish i woulda found it on friday), because i see that you come at the gender issue the same way that you come at the race issue.

          here's something you might be interested in, don't know if you've seen it but it's pretty cool, and really accurate, check it out when you get a minute

          http://www.understandingprejudice.or...

          "I aimed at the public's heart, and by accident I hit it in the stomach." - Upton Sinclair

          by kathleen518 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:14:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  There is no doubt (0+ / 0-)

            and the test confirms that I have a moderate association on both race and gender issues although in reality it's a little more complicated than that.

            I think that there is a case to be made feminine and masculine traits are real and that existence is not gender neutral. Males tend to be physically dominant animals and tend toward behaviour patterns in keeping with the roles evolved to for thousands of generations, this does not reverse in the short term. Can we act as sentient beings aware of ourselves in our surroundings? Sure; but it is what it is, I still get up on the ladder and clean the gutters, though I also cook dinner and do the dishes. Hey, am I getting ripped off?

            The whole race association thing is another matter as there is no such anthropological basis. I can suggest it results from the images and stereotypes to which we are exposed culturally which then become, to some extent, self fulfilling and hence reinforced by reality.  Roles have been mapped out and assigned for generations to varying racial and ethnic subgroups which to some measurable extent been borne out in reality.  Asians tend to do better academically, African Americans tend to do better athletically, Caucasians tend to do better financially?.

            This is too long and too complex a subject for any single comment, but to jump back on topic, I would add this. After considering the McCain comment I would summarize my feelings as such: I would take no offense to anyone's spouse participating in any event of that nature for their own benefit, what I am offended by is his "encouragement" of her participating for "HIS" benefit (Pimping). I also take no offense to her demure role since many chose to be a passenger in a relationship, I am offended that he took his passenger and tried to "turn her out" as a Hood Ornament.  If your partner "chooses" to "let you drive" then you are charged with their care and acting in their best interest in sort of a spousal fiduciary relationship, and he broke that and I am offended.

            •  way too long and complicated (0+ / 0-)

              for a comment.  it's an afternoon at a coffee shop, at least.  i think you're right about gender associations being much more natural than racial ones, although i know from experience that even those aren't carved in stone. i really love that test - i wind up w/no racial or gender preference, and i'm pretty sure i understand why.

              i get what you're saying about a man's responsibility to a woman when the woman has made the choice to be a "passenger". the problem with that line of reasoning is exactly what we're seeing in this mccain sturgis trip - not all men will be responsible, and that is why i and many women believe so strongly that women need to stop being passengers.
              i've lived w/the same man for almost seventeen years. we are partners. he doesn't expect me to assume any stereotypical female role or chore, and vice versa. we are two people, one of whom hates ladders, so i do the gutters. we work on cars together - i'm better at troubleshooting and jerry-rigging, he's better with more technical stuff once he knows what's wrong.  we cook together, we both do laundry, we both do yard work, he does plumbing and i do electrical work.
              i guess there will always be women who for whatever reason decide to let some guy drive. but you can't put the onus for the outcome of that decision solely on the man. doing that negates a woman's ability to think, to make a decision, to make a wise choice. i think john mccain is a despicable bastard, for alot of reasons, but i think his wife bears just as much responsibility for whatever happens in sturgis as he does.  
              she doesn't have to go. she might think she does, and he might be really upset if she doesn't, but truth is, she can stay home.
              all she has to do is make that choice.    

              "I aimed at the public's heart, and by accident I hit it in the stomach." - Upton Sinclair

              by kathleen518 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 04:12:01 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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