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View Diary: What? This isn’t a Disney ride? (72 comments)

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  •  Yup (3+ / 0-)
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    murrayewv, sd4david, kaye

    I had a cousin who lost both arms at the elbow having fun that way.

    You kids behave or I'm turning this universe around RIGHT NOW! - god

    by Clem Yeobright on Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 07:50:44 AM PDT

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    •  you sound angry n/t (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Clem Yeobright
      •  You misunderstand. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kaye, ozarkspark

        I agree with this diary in general: there has been a revolution in both (a) the acceptance of loss and (b)the evaluation of risk since I was a child.

        This particular cousin (whom I've never met) was one of 13 children in his family and - as I'm told by my still rural relatives - it was assumed that some of the kids would end up 'throwaways'.  [The real throwaway, by the way, turned out to be the one who went to the city and came home with AIDS - he was shunned by his parents and all but one of his siblings and died in a hospital not 20 miles from the family farm.] My grandmother saw three siblings die in a single week in the flu epidemic of 1918.

        With smaller families, the reduced willingness to accept loss - and risk of loss - is rational.  The 'revolution' in risk evaluation is more problematic, and where I agree here is that risk is poorly evaluated 'these days'. It's still risk, though.

        You kids behave or I'm turning this universe around RIGHT NOW! - god

        by Clem Yeobright on Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 08:22:47 AM PDT

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      •  What a RUDE thing to say. (0+ / 0-)

        MC=W^3: McCain=W's 3rd term

        by sd4david on Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 09:11:24 AM PDT

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    •  True, farms have among the highest rates (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ozarkspark

      of work injuries.  I have a cousin who lost an arm.  I'm not advocating what I see as the other side of the fallacy - that the real world, the mother earth, is this safe cure-all for modern day ills.  Farming and ranching is hard, dangerous work.

      I bet your cousin didn't lose his arms riding in the back of a pickup sitting flat in the bed as I mentioned - unless it rolled over or he was tossed out, in which case it is the equivalent of riding in any vehicle without seat belts.  Lots of loss of arms from the arm, or clothing, getting caught in equipment - that's what happened to my cousin.  That's why my dad did have a rule against us standing anywhere near moving belts on equipment or anything else like that which could pull in body parts.

      It's the common sense.  The responsibility.  The real world is dangerous.  We have to learn that and react to that, not some myth.

      Distrust all unreasoning fanatics - even those who agree with you

      by Anti Fanatic on Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 08:05:54 AM PDT

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    •  yup.... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Clem Yeobright, kaye

      amazing the number of children working on farms who suffer devestating injuries and death.  Child labor, unsupervised.  Good times.  

      That said, the elderly farmers are a bigger problem to themselves as well- spouse's uncle by marriage died with a tipped tractor mowing a slope (and in Kansas! well Flint Hills are hills too!).

      You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

      by murrayewv on Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 08:06:19 AM PDT

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      •  Ok, clarification (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Clem Yeobright, ozarkspark

        This diary is not about forced child labor.  Yes, children of ranch families do work on the ranches.  Some ranch parents are wonderful, as mine were, and the work is something we look back on with, mostly, good memories.  (Although bagging dirty wool in the hot Texas sun can never be considered pleasant.)  Some ranch parents, like some urban and suburban parents, are not good parents.  Bad things happen to kids with bad parents.  I haven't checked the statistics to see if it is statistically unsafer to have bad parents on a ranch than in a city.

        But, folks, this is really not the point of the diary!

        Distrust all unreasoning fanatics - even those who agree with you

        by Anti Fanatic on Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 08:10:43 AM PDT

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        •  I understand Anti Fanatic.... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kaye

          I’m concerned that the real physical world I grew up in with its dangers, and the awareness of the reality of dangers, is a total mystery to an increasing number of people.

          But I bet more people are hurt by other bad people than by wild animals.  And those city people you find silly in their ignorance manage to lock up their houses and cars because of human crime, not bears.

          I hope your dad keeps on goes out doing what he loves.  I am sure I don't need to tell you that it is scary when people lose their ability to be independent.  Spouse's uncle regularly refused help and his family felt terrible when it happened, but we all knew no one could stop him.

          You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

          by murrayewv on Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 08:20:40 AM PDT

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          •  Sorry if I ridiculed city people (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ozarkspark

            I was just as silly about anything relating to life in the city.  Believe it or not, I work several days trying to get this diary to convey the point I had clearly in my head.  I was trying to use examples - which always seem the best way to make the point - that we seem to have lost touch with reality and expect a world made safe for us in all ways.  Not just the rural examples, but the products liability examples.  I know that most seem to disagree with me on the coffee example.  I still like my coffee hot and think the outcome of that lawsuit was not reasonable.  But, I understand that it was legally sustainable because McDonald's coffee was hotter than the norm, and an 81-year-old woman is a very sympathetic plaintiff.  Obviously the jury disagreed with me and many here do.

            I think society is reasonable in locking doors and being fearful of some other people.  And I think it is reasonable for society to make rules on conduct to try to keep us safe from others.

            Distrust all unreasoning fanatics - even those who agree with you

            by Anti Fanatic on Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 09:01:43 AM PDT

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        •  I'm uncomfortable with your 'blame the victim' (0+ / 0-)
          - or the victim's parents! - theme here.

          You've mixed a lot of things in this diary, pursuing a 'unified theory of everything', I surmise. It would be better if you narrowed this down to the defensible points you have to make (which I believe exist and are worth exposing).

          You kids behave or I'm turning this universe around RIGHT NOW! - god

          by Clem Yeobright on Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 08:27:11 AM PDT

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          •  not blaming victims.... (0+ / 0-)

            lots of mistakes get made in the rearing of children by well meaning people, rural and urban.  Accidents happen.  Neglect happens.  As someone who grew up as a happy child laborer in the family 1/2 acre garden, I agree expecting kids to help out is a good family tradition.  Interestingly though, rural areas used to and still let 14 year olds get drivers licenses for work or school to help out.  

            Real risks are faced when people leave their comfort zone and go somewhere new- and you can't tell some people anything.  There are many true things in this, but it can be oversimplified.

            You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

            by murrayewv on Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 08:37:01 AM PDT

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          •  OK, I must not have written this as well (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Clem Yeobright, ozarkspark

            as I tried.  I'm blaming those with victim mentality.  I'm blaming those with some false sense that this world is supposed to be idiot-proof.  I don't intend to blame those who are true victims - and I know that there certainly are some.  I was trying to describe the attitude that bothers me in the society.

            Maybe I do have a Libertarian streak.  I don't think that the government, or manufacturers, or anyone else is responsible to keep you or me or anyone else from running with scissors and putting our eye out.

            Distrust all unreasoning fanatics - even those who agree with you

            by Anti Fanatic on Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 08:47:14 AM PDT

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            •  Maybe I haven't read this as well (0+ / 0-)

              as I should have.

              There are funny things happening out there, but there have always been funny things happening out there, and, all things considered, I prefer these funny things to those funny things.

              When bad things happen to people who are stupid - the Darwin Awards - that's sad. When they happen to the children of stupid people, it's tragic.

              I'm content to leave many of these things to a jury, which is why I feel almost betrayed that you - a lawyer - cite the McDonald's coffee case as unreasonable. You yourself note that allowing a bureaucracy to administer rules - as in Worker's Comp cases - holds at least as much risk of 'injustice'.

              There is 'slippage' in the transmission of society, and there has always been. It's still a beautiful day outside ...

              You kids behave or I'm turning this universe around RIGHT NOW! - god

              by Clem Yeobright on Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 09:09:12 AM PDT

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              •  We agree it is a beautiful day (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Clem Yeobright

                Maybe I didn't write it as well as I should.  Maybe you and I just have a difference in opinion and I am more of the Libertarian view.  I know that there are many here with more Progressive views than mine.

                Distrust all unreasoning fanatics - even those who agree with you

                by Anti Fanatic on Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 09:11:29 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  When all is said and done - and forgotten (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Anti Fanatic

                  I will always be grateful for 'helicopter mothers'.

                  You kids behave or I'm turning this universe around RIGHT NOW! - god

                  by Clem Yeobright on Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 09:17:07 AM PDT

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                  •  I will always be grateful for loving mothers (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Clem Yeobright

                    as well.  I was using "helicopter mother" in the sense used by some teachers to refer to a mother who overprotects a child by refusing to let the child experience the consequences of not doing homework or misbehaving in class.  

                    Maybe my definition of loving mother includes mothers who believe their children must sometimes learn through their mistakes - but let's agree that we both want the mothers, and fathers, to be caring, loving and doing their best to raise their children safely to be the best possible adults.

                    Distrust all unreasoning fanatics - even those who agree with you

                    by Anti Fanatic on Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 09:36:15 AM PDT

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            •  I think the subject (0+ / 0-)

              of your diary questions the current social climate in specific ways and so was bound to receive criticism.  But that makes it interesting, a credit to you and the commentors(sp? I wish I could figure out how to use spell check on this blog)

              Thanks!    

      •  Elderly farmers as a danger to self (0+ / 0-)

        Sure - my dad is 80 and still running the ranch.  He's fallen off one roof and out of one tree in recent years.  He may well die from a ranching accident.  I adore my dad and will miss him more than I could ever convey to you when he dies.  And I hope that he dies doing what he still loves to do - running his ranch.  I know from talking with him and knowing him that he doesn't want to spend his last years sitting in a safe nursing home reading and watching TV.  He will continue to ranch as long as his arthritic body and chronic silicosis lungs will allow.  And we will all do our best to to prolong his ranching days by helping him.

        Distrust all unreasoning fanatics - even those who agree with you

        by Anti Fanatic on Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 08:14:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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