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View Diary: Army Psychologist Pleads 'Fifth' in Case of Prisoner 900 (250 comments)

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  •  This is so fucking disgusting. (20+ / 0-)

    I'm a psychologist (albeit an experimental psychologist), and it just freaking galls me that anyone who would purport to spend at least 5 years studying things about how people work would get within 5 miles of this administration.

    And it really pisses me off that the APA won't stand up.  Makes me gladder and gladder I'm a member of APS instead.

    It's just disgusting.

    Je suis inondé de déesses

    by Marc in KS on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 05:33:08 PM PDT

    •  I'm a counseling psychologist in academia (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Creosote, Marc in KS, kyril, BYw

      with an emphasis on training, supervision and practice and completely agree.  I quit APA years ago when it became obvious they sold their soul to the insurance companies etc. for legitimacy and greed.

      I almost wish I still belonged so I could protest, vote then resign.

      Eyes on the Prize - JedReport

      by juslikagrzly on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 08:47:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Good for you. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        juslikagrzly

        APS was pretty much born from people who wanted a society for scientific psychology; APA had more and more become a tool for those who were practicing clinicians, not for clinical researchers or psychological scientists.

        I joined APS just about the time it was born.  I have a friend from grad school who is one of the "founding" members.  I wasn't as quick as she...

        Je suis inondé de déesses

        by Marc in KS on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 09:36:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  well, I'm glad APS exists but (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Marc in KS

          I consider myself much more of a clinician than a scientist.  I really don't like doing research and if we're going to teach people to do psychotherapy we damn well better know how to do it. Very few academic psychologists actually practice.

          Anyway, I've read your comments for years now and never realized we were in similar fields.  Glad to meet you.  

          Eyes on the Prize - JedReport

          by juslikagrzly on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 01:12:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  My deal about research and practice is (0+ / 0-)

            that practice simply must be informed by the data.  

            I actually had a graduate class of to-be PhD clinical psychologists argue with me that they didn't need to know how people thought (I teach cognitive).  I asked them what they planned on basing their clinical judgments upon, "the fact that people like to talk to you??"

            And they all seemed absolutely fine with that.  I was freaked out.  I pressed them and asked, "Would you like your doctor to recommend surgery because he 'feels' that would be the best thing for you?"  That shamed them a little, but I'm still convinced that many in clinical practice actively disdain the science, and that sort of scares me.  People who disdain the science are people like Bass & Davis (and gullible therapists) who cause god-knows how much damage and pain because of their ignorance and arrogance.

            That's why I think the science is important, or at least having respect for the idea that what I do on the couch comes from something other than my own personality and good wishes for the welfare of my clients.

            I like the scientist-pratitioner model a lot.  You don't have to do the research, but you should be aware of the literature, be able to understand it, and be able to incorporate its results into your practice.  That's all I mean.  

            I don't like doing research all that much, either -- I teach at a small liberal arts college and am a teacher much more than a scientist.  But science is the only method we have for determining what works and what doesn't, and I would like to think that every therapist believes that.

            I've been reading your comments for years, too.  This is a strange community, isn't it?  I'm glad to meet you, too.

            Je suis inondé de déesses

            by Marc in KS on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 02:43:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Agree mostly :-). I can come across as (0+ / 0-)

              anti-science simply because I feel like a voice in the wilderness sometimes.  I'm not at all anti-science...would just like a broader definition.  And I do read and keep up with current literature.  What really chaps me though is the insistence on ESTs. I mentioned in another diary that meta-analyses are showing no differences at all between therapies, which brings us straight back to common factors as the agent of change.  I'm lucky enough to work with someone who does this kind of research and believe me, it is rigorous research.

              I relish the courses I had in cognitive/personality etc. and try to stay up with current research.  You're so right so ask your students that question.  And I think what I tell my students is important to--no matter what you know or how much you know it is YOU sitting there across from the client.  YOU are your best therapeutic tool along with the relationship you build with your client.  Scientific knowledge in and of itself does not make a good therapist.  I'm not sure our current model of training can ensure that we turn out good clinicians.  Good scientists maybe, but it's a crap shoot on the good clinicians.

              Where I believe I stray from the current state of scientific knowledge in our field is that we cannot hold to the medical model of research.  What we study is inferred from behavior very unlike looking at how a cancer cell reacts to a new drug.  We must teach our students critical thinking skills, clinical judgment, ethics, and help them understand that they view their clients through the lens of their own experiences, biases and assumptions.

              Thanks for the conversation - hope we have more.

              Eyes on the Prize - JedReport

              by juslikagrzly on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 04:08:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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