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View Diary: Pat Buchanan, Caught Making Sense! (331 comments)

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  •  No one is making Rusia out (7+ / 0-)

    to be a shining knight.

    Georgians got screwed because their President decided to ally with the Bush government.  Now people are dead.  

    •  Well Said! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TomP, kyril, MariaWr

      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth. ..John F. Kennedy

      by irishamerican on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:13:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  well said, but utterly pointless (0+ / 0-)

        you have to deal with the situation, not whether it scores domestic political points.

        We all know Saakashvili is a tool.  But is that a get out of jail free card?

        We can't practice this kind of rhetoric, otherwise we justify the attacks on the naivete of the blog.

        "you have the right to your own opinion. You do not have the right to your own facts" -Daniel Patrick Moynihan

        by SteveP on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:21:35 PM PDT

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    •  yes...but.... (0+ / 0-)

      the fact the people are dying is the issue here. We are praising Pat(!) for slamming Saakashvili.  There's a problem here, and it has long and tangled roots, but let's not give Russia a free pass nor, more importantly, fail to learn the lessons presented here.

      At some point we have to toe the line of rule of law.  That means third parties OUT. Geneva conventions about use of force to settle border disputes verboten and so on.  Just because you or I think that Saakashvili and the neocons are the shit that they are, doesn't justify Russia taking by force what they view as their imperial property.

      "you have the right to your own opinion. You do not have the right to your own facts" -Daniel Patrick Moynihan

      by SteveP on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 12:18:45 PM PDT

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      •  So Far (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        maxschell, Nimbus

        Russia hasn't done anything except respond to Georgia's provocation - a provocation that almost unquestionably took place with the knowledge and approval of the Bush Administration.  It is premature to accuse Russia of taking property or asserting imperial ambitions.  Is Russia's response excessive?  Undoubtedly, but imagine how "restrained" the US would be if Castro started lobbing shells into Guantanamo.  The EU negotiated the terms of a cease fire and Russia agreed to them.  IMO this conflict could easily blow over into a non-event unless the US chooses to make it a test of strength, in which case Russia will be sure not to do anything that makes it look like it is capitulating to the US.  Fortunately, Joe Lieberman is on his way to Georgia and I'm sure he will make certain that everybody keeps his head (snark).

      •  Link (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BTW here's a good link for the proposition that the US had to have forewarning of Georgia's actions.  George Friedman is a very conservative, but very reliable analyst on military/intelligence matters.

        •  People This is Bush/Cheney 101 (0+ / 0-)

          They have been interested in destabilizing the Middle East from the get go.


          Reason #1: High Oil Prices.

          Destabilization of the Middle East -> High Oil Prices.  Reason number two is of course warmaking and chaos which the neocons love because they think it is good for Israel, and a high percentage of American contractors/businesspeople love (remember that Bush's 25% = 75 million + Americans) because they can get rich off other people's misery and death.

          Of course, said destabilization was helped by the short-selling conducted by Saudi and emirate funds over the past 18 months.

          Notice how quickly the price of oil dropped after the moratorium on short-selling went into effect in July?

          Anyway this is yet another lesson from Bush/Cheney 101: create a war to lock in long-term profits and power.

          After all, ya didn't think they'd leave quietly didja'?


          by maxschell on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 01:16:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  yes but...but... (0+ / 0-)

        We are were we are and we seem to have a confused picture of what is actually happening,

        CNN and MSM seem to be rolling pictures of days ago of Russian attacks.

        BBC seem to be runing it as a lower profile story and talking about Russians patrolling in Georgian territory.

        There are armed Georgian civillians, there are armed South Ossetian civillians and irregular militia. they are killing each other.

        The Russians may not be doing enough to control the area they are in but there are reports they are stopping it. Them pulling out as quickly as they came may be exactly wrong at present.

        Pull out in phased way over days or weeks yes, the media narritive that is running which says ceasefire was signed so they must all go home inside 24 hours is nuts.

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