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View Diary: So. What to do with Russia? (271 comments)

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  •  And just how does any of this (0+ / 0-)

    support your statement that Saakashvili is comparable to Saddam?  I have never defended him as the ideal leader.  I said that his government took the Putin's bait and over-reacted and that that allowed Russia the excuse to invade (which I said was Russia's paln all along.  You said, I had all of my information wrong and that Saakashvili was "another Saddam Hussein."  I asked for evidence and still am waiting.

    Non, je ne regrette rien

    by alexnovo on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 04:41:18 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  apparently we disagree (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Your statements:

      1. that Russia has been arming Ossetian militias which have been harassing Georgian villages and attacking Georgian forces, (3) Russia was massing tanks and troops on the border

      suggest to me that you are reversing the situation in terms of who was the aggressor in this outbreak, and who may have been taunting whom at the border.  

      In your #2, I think the reverse was occurring: that the US had been arming Georgian militias which were harassing the S. Ossentians who had formed a separate territory back in the '90's

      And #3, I have heard no reports (0) about Russia massing tanks and troops on the Georgian border (where are your proofs, btw),

      only that an overinflated (by the West) sock-puppet president (Saakashvili) who's been chomping at the bit for some time to force S. Ossetia back under his rule, took this opportunity to do so, falsely and naively believing the US interests in the oil pipeline there would be enough to assure his backing.

      Since Sadaam Hussein was backed in taking power in Iraq, and as a puppet of the US, finally overstepped his bounds and was put in his place, I see a similarity between the two. If you don't, then I guess we disagree.


      Finding your own Voice -- The personal is political!

      by In her own Voice on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:28:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes we disagree (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jerome a Paris

        Sorry for not responding more quickly, I left to watch Omama's great performance at Saddleback.  As to number three.  The Brooking Institute report note that shortly after the initial Georgian operation began:

        I think we then very quickly transitioned into a second stage
        where there was an increasing appreciation of the speed and the scale of
        Russian military operations, and it was striking in two ways. First, the
        speed. Combined arms operations take a lot of time to manage, and the
        speed with which this operation was launched suggests a lot of
        preplanning and considerable preparation in advance as if it were simply
        waiting for a pretext, which may have been provided on Thursday night.
        Second, it also became evident that the scale of the operations was very
        large. You saw not only operations in South Ossetia Proper but bombing
        throughout Georgia. The introduction of Russian forces into Abkhazia,
        deployment of the Black Sea Fleet into the coastal region of Georgia for
        what appeared to be an undeclared blockade, and then also on Monday
        Russian forces actually moving out of South Ossetia and Abkhazia into
        other areas of Georgia. And I think this scale suggests that this is not just
        about South Ossetia. There is a broader political message here.

        This has been reported elsewhere as well.  What is clear, is that the Russians were prepared for an invasion.  I would also refer you to Human Rights Watch for a number of reports of what they have found on the ground.  

        To me it seems as if too many people seem to buy into the old adage that the enemy of my enemy is my friend and the friend of my enemy is my enemy. In this case, this adage has those who dislike Bush saying any friend of his (Georgia) must be bad, and any enemy of Georgia and Bush (Russia) must be good.  Unfortunately the world is not that simple.  As much as I dislike Bush, I chose to look at the facts, and while no side in this argument is without blame, what seems to be clear is that the real bad actor here is Russia.

        Non, je ne regrette rien

        by alexnovo on Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 09:32:02 PM PDT

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