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View Diary: Mormon Prop 8 Plan: 1,000,000 yard signs (132 comments)

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  •  One of my dearest friends in high school (6+ / 0-)

    killed himself because of it.

    I have been disowned over it.

    My sympathies do not lie with the church, at all.

    The members themselves may not all be bigoted, but the lifestyle they support is more harmful than the one they denounce.

    I'll defend the church when it's necessary, but when it comes to this subject, I absolutely will not.

    One failure after another and the final result is anarchy. -edscan

    by BoiseBlue on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 08:33:46 PM PDT

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    •  People kill themselves in every religion. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      I had a Jewish friend kill himself and blamed it on his religion.  It has no bearing on the religion.

      •  Have you ever been Mormon? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        high uintas, homogenius, Larry Madill

        One failure after another and the final result is anarchy. -edscan

        by BoiseBlue on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 08:38:49 PM PDT

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        •  Many people don't understand how immersive it is. (1+ / 0-)
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          I know many LGBT people who still consider themselves LDS. Certainly that's true of many others, but there's a certain quality to growing up LDS.

          Ironically, the nicest LDS people I ever knew was when I was growing up in school. Our neighbors were LDS and the father was the bishop of their ward. We had a religiously diverse neighborhood and they never tried to proselytize among the families that had their own faith.

          Probably the funniest thing I ever saw was sitting at lunch with some of the LDS members of the gay men's chorus when I was singing with them. They were all comparing notes about their families of origin. What was remarkable was that the stories were so identical, even in states that were far apart.

          And don't forget that Utah has the highest per capita use of anti-depressants. It's hard emotional work trying to be perfect all the time. I have a gay friend in Salt Lake--he says it's tougher there in the gay scene than anywhere he's ever seen.

          "Troll-be-gone...apply directly to the asshole. Troll-be-gone...apply directly to the asshole."

          by homogenius on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 08:45:20 PM PDT

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          •  There used to be some awesome gay bars in (0+ / 0-)

            salt the lake city.  Best nightlife in town.  I think I heard it closed, but I'll bet there's several more to take it's place.

            He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. - John Stuart Mill

            by drnihili on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 08:51:46 PM PDT

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          •  Too true (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            homogenius, AmericanRiverCanyon

            There is a lot of information about Mormons out there, but if you haven't lived it, it's very hard to grasp.

            My grandparents both fought very hard against the anti-AA attitude in the church. My grandfather was a very highly respected elder. They hated that the church engaged in such racism and were absolutely thrilled when it changed it position.

            Those same people disowned their own granddaughter. I know plenty of evangelicals, even gay ones, but I've never seen a group more willing to "disown" a member of their own family than Mormons.

            And anyone who has never been disowned has no idea how bad that hurts.

            One failure after another and the final result is anarchy. -edscan

            by BoiseBlue on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 08:53:35 PM PDT

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      •  I think religion can play a role in teen suicides (3+ / 0-)

        I grew up in a Evanglical Protestant home, and I can say any type of fervent religious belief can create a certain amount of cognitive dissonance within anyone. Especially if you are young.

        The Church is telling you one thing, but your body and mind are telling you completely different things. But then the Church tells you all those natural impulses are from "the Devil", but you are going to want to do them or do them, and pretty soon you are wondering what is wrong with you and why can't you fight all these sinful urges (that aren't sinful).

        I definitely can see how that can make a young kid, or even an adult snap and seek an easy way out.

        If at first you don't succeed, your name is not Chuck Todd.

        by Larry Madill on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 08:43:31 PM PDT

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      •  The Mormon religion, in particular, (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        homogenius, BoiseBlue, Larry Madill

        does have some extremely harmful practices when it comes to mental health. There's a reason Utah leads the country in antidepressant usage.

        You haven't experienced 'uncomfortable' until you've approached your bishop or young women(or men's) leader when you were 15 with honest questions on church doctrine (like why blacks were barred from full membership until the 70s) and had your concerns brushed off, and instead been subjected to an interview (more like an interrogation) with an old man (bishop) asking you extremely personal and offensive questions (like asking you if you masturbate, or if you've ever felt same-sex attraction, or had any kind of lewd thoughts).

        It's extremely damaging, and it can create an extremely dangerous self-loathing in a person.

        •  Data please? (0+ / 0-)

          If none, this should be dismissed.

          •  Provided. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            homogenius, AmericanRiverCanyon

            For Antidepressant Use:

            Pick any of the hundreds of relevant matches.

            For the story? was a personal story, let's leave it at that, shall we? I also know that I'm not the only one who experienced it, from reading testimonials of others on ex-Mormon boards.

          •  Hey, Noob. (1+ / 0-)
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            Don't be so full of yourself. I don't care what you think of my comment. But numerous people are sharing things from their religious upbringing and the painful effects on them and people they care about.

            Don't be so dismissive. Whether you believe them or not, it's still true. Some of these folks have decades of their lives invested in dealing with this shit.

            "Troll-be-gone...apply directly to the asshole. Troll-be-gone...apply directly to the asshole."

            by homogenius on Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 09:06:22 PM PDT

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