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  •  yet we base our laws on our values. (0+ / 0-)

    One of our values is that we think it is wrong to kill another person.  

    It doesn't take a theocracy to come to that conclusion.  

    And again, there is no real debate as to when life begins.  Science tells us that.

    The question is when do we value life.  

    •  Science does not tell us when human life begins. (0+ / 0-)

      We do not base our laws on our values.  In this country we base our laws on what is Constitutional and what is not.  You have no way of proving that a fetus is a human being.  Therefore, it is not covered by our Constitution.  

      Can you please explain to me what the problem is with preaching in your own church about your own faith-based beliefs?  This would be the most logical venue for achieving your goals.  In the meantime, people who hold the same views have set themselves and their beliefs up as pawns to use for the same wedge-issue in every election.  At some point I would think people would realize that this is not going anywhere in government as I've explained over and over, because it is not a debate that can be won without making a religious/faith based determination.  

      •  My own church already has the right (0+ / 0-)

        idea on this.

        This isn't a battle that can ever be conceded.  Abortion is the death of an unborn human being.  All human life must be defended and protected.

        The idea isn't just to convince my own fellow church members.  It is to convince everyone.

        And we intend to add it to the constitution.  

        •  Well, I hate to disillusion you, but it ain't (0+ / 0-)

          ever going to happen.  Have you not observed the number of times you've voted in the guy who promised to further your efforts and the number of times that it absolutely went nowhere?  Do you not realize your religious beliefs are being used to manipulate your vote at this point?

          It will never be part of the Constitution because you have no empirical evidence.

          You are wasting your time and in the meantime turning off many people who might listen to you if you addressed it for what it really is, a matter of the soul and of faith for consideration at that level rather than a religious view you hold that you've arrogantly decided everyone else should believe.

          My advice to you would be to re-think your tact.  As Jesus Christ said, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's."  By my interpretation, he was basically advising people how the work of the soul should always be conducted outside the halls of our government.  Just my view, of course.    

          •  yes we are aware that the Republicans are (0+ / 0-)

            willing to use it as a wedge issue,and very few of them actually want to overturn Roe v. Wade.

            What is the alternative?  Vote for the Democrats?

            That just makes me giggle.. They are just a bunch of nitwits.  And the ones who aren't nitwits, like the Clintons, are just evil.  

            And as to being part of the constitution, empirical evidence isn't necessary. It just has to be voted on.

            So we try to persuade and change the hearts and minds of people, one at a time.

            •  Ah yes, God's work is trolling on liberal blogs. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              trashablanca, martydd

              That's winning hearts and minds, just like blowing Iraqi children apart is winning them over daily, right?  

              I don't believe you even value your own beliefs, you would not be pursuing them so disrespectfully.

              Goodbye Wrong as Dubya.  

              Flush.

            •  you have got to be kidding me (3+ / 0-)

              when you write this kind of malarkey:

              yes we are aware that the Republicans are (0+ / 0-)

              willing to use it as a wedge issue,and very few of them actually want to overturn Roe v. Wade.

              a very few?

              on which planet have you been vacationing?

              and if you knew your stuff you would know that it isn't really roe v wade that the republican party is after, it is CT vs Griswold.

              know the facts.

              _______________

              it's their screen name because they couldn't figure out how to spell "moran."

              -9.75 (e), -7.18 (s)

              by dadanation on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:05:22 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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