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View Diary: Big Business Goes After Unions to Defeat Democrats (327 comments)

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  •  organized labor is losing and sooon it will be (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    seabos84, alkalinesky, banjolele

    like the dinosaurs  extinct

    •  The unions (12+ / 0-)

      need to re-brand themselves as smarter, more efficient, more dedicated.

      They're letting conservatives control the narrative by saying nothing in an ad.

    •  Labor and the Dems are inextricably linked (23+ / 0-)

      The one period of true Dem dominance (mid-30s to mid-70s) was the one period where labor had real power.  Labor's decline starting in the late 70s and the decline of the Dems went virtually hand in hand.

      The death of a proposed labor law reform bill in a Senate filibuster in 1978 was a signal moment for both sides.  It (along w/ the passage of Prop 13 and the first NCPAC smear campaigns) was a precursor of what was to come in the ensuing decade.

      It's a very good thing that the fortunes of labor and the Dems are being tied together on this issue.  Now that I think about it, it's an even better thing that we have the first Dem ticket in ages w/ 2 candidates w/ long-established union ties.

      Some men see things as they are and ask why. I see things that never were and ask why not?

      by RFK Lives on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:29:20 AM PDT

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      •  Filibuster is the right word (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RFK Lives, buckhorn okie

        I'm pessimistic about EFCA. It will pass the House and a President Obama would sign it. But I would be astonished to see it pass the Senate. The EFCA would be the end of the GOP, and so the Dems will not be able to peel a single member of the GOP Senate caucus on a cloture vote.

        I think this legislation is absolutely awesome and I would love it if someone could spell out a path through the Senate. Any takers?

        •  The new Senate can create new rules, if they so (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          UpstateVlad

          desire.  Sixty doesn't have to be the number to overide a fillibuster, it could be 55.  Also, if we could get a fighting dem in charge of the senate, it should not be impossible to get 60 votes.  With all three branches controlled by one party, all kinds of legal pressure can be brought to bear.

        •  Son of a Bitch (2+ / 1-)
          Recommended by:
          hippykicker, oaktownadam
          Hidden by:
          unionsally

          I posted a comment this morning on this subject and it's gone - we delete comments we don't like now here at DKOS?

          I have a Merit Shop - and I'll support the EFCA if and only if the legislation (I've told my Senator this face to face) the same card check works if your employees want to leave the union. The Union, according to the Department of Labor has the worst record on wage and hour violations.

          This is a democracy last time I checked...and if want the EFCA then is should also include the right to de-unionize...otherwise you've given the Unions the upper and hand and damn near a monopoly. This is a change for checks and balances...not just one sided legislation.l

          In this election, the economy has no color

          by Arkydem on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:53:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  your comment was deleted because (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Special K

            The Union, according to the Department of Labor has the worst record on wage and hour violations.

            you are posting inflamatory nonsense. Back up your claims, and maybe you wont get hide-rated. In the meantime, here's another donut for ya...

          •  Your comment was not removed (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Special K, rockhound, unionsally

             it is still there, but was hidden.

             Merit shop is an Orwellian phrase that implies union shops are full of workers who somehow lack merit, or are lazy. Try "non union shop" instead. It is much more descriptive.

             Unionized workers can indeed already call for a decertification election if they so desire. It's the law. So quit harping about that.

             The present election process is a sham. Even if the union is certified as the bargaining agent for the employees, the employer has no incentive to bargain--at all! The election means nothing. The entire process is heavily slanted in favor of employers who can drag the process out, fire union organizers with impunity, hire unionbusting law firms to intimidate workers, and then ignore the results of the election.

             Does that sound like a fair process to you?

             The right to belong to a union is just that--a right. It is not a contest between employees and their employer.

             Why are you afraid of unions? Union workers are better trained. Union shops have less turnover, so their more--experienced workers are more productive. A worker with better job security and compensation, both hallmarks of unionization, is more likely to feel he has a stake in the company. If you own a business, I'm sure you know that such a person is going to generate more profit for your company.

             Lighten up, and stick around. I'm sure you'll learn something here.

            What's the difference between Vietnam and Iraq? Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam.

            by happy camper on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:14:06 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm from a union family (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              oaktownadam

              my old man's job is what fed the family. This was 40 years ago -

              Now - here's a lesson for those that might be open minded enough to look at the other side.

              Suppose my employees decide they want a union - most small to medium shops don't have the resources to hire some union busting high dollar attorney.

              Here's your options; agree to the union and face the real prospect of losing your business - I know, you're gonna disagree. Well here's the real deal. You bid work - you bid work on the cost of materials and labor. Now you've been unionized and your labor costs go up, say 28%. Your competitor - the guy you been battling for years over pennies per sq. ft. - we'll he's not quite big enough for the union organizers to go after.

              You go head to head with this guy the next day...and guess who wins the bid - the lowest bidder - my competitor. I can't do jack doo doo about it. This happens for a year maybe two, my business drys up - I go deeper into debt trying to hang on - I lay off folks - it's a right to work state - and all the time, my competitors gets bigger and bigger - the union catches up with him - and his competitor becomes the beneficiary of my competitor being unionized. I've seen this too may times - there isn't a business in my industry that can survive and absorb an increase in costs when his competitors don't have to play in the same ballpark.

              The other option - when you know that you're going to be unionized. Shut her down - form a new corporation (happens all the time).

              And here in MHO is the dirty little secret in my industy (construction). It's not the General Contractor, the Subcontractors or anybody who actually is building the project - it's the OWNERS who decide if the job will be a union or non-union job. The unions have made the contractors the big bad wolves, when in fact it's the owners - everytime I hear the the union is picketing a job site - I laugh - the Owners have successfully used the contractors as their shield - and they'll take the lowest price, regardless of the ethics or whose doing the work - they want the most for the least -and that's not the union, ya want to picket, picket the parent company that's building the building.

              That my friend is why many of my fellow brethren fear the union - I don't - they do - and until the playing field is the same - they got a right to fear it.

              You can aruge with me and give me a million reasons to tell me that I'm dead wrong, that these aren't the real facts. We'll, it's the facts on the ground and the fear is real for these business's owners who have put  their lives and hearts into their businesses.

              If these are not the facts, well then the unions have done a damn poor job of letting the business community know what the feature/benefits of having a union are and for damn sure the owners and end consumers need an education.

              In this election, the economy has no color

              by Arkydem on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 12:10:50 PM PDT

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    •  And so will go the America we've all grown up in. (16+ / 0-)

      Sorry but face the facts - without organized labor, this country has no middle class nor does it defeat Facism or Communism.

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