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View Diary: Big Business Goes After Unions to Defeat Democrats (327 comments)

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  •  Probably not (1+ / 0-)
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    But the power to shun is pretty strong.  If your co-workers are hostile to you because you refuse to sign the card, life is going to be pretty tough.  You probably won't be able to keep your job due to the hostile work environment.

    But the issue to me is that the essence of a secret ballot is to prevent intimidation from any source.  When someone is opposed to it, then I have to suspect it is because they wish to use intimidation to achieve their ends.

    Is there any other reason for opposing a secret ballot?

    •  Every reason (2+ / 0-)
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      happy camper, unionsally

      "Shunning" versus "threat of job loss" - well, if you're older than 13, it's generally clear which one has the advantage.

      What they so sweetly call "secret ballot" is a system that, in my industry, often lasts longer than the job itself.  Sounds great on paper, but in practice it effectively eliminates the ability to form a union almost every time the employees want one.  The employer has all the power, and the employees only have the option to quit.

      The term "secret ballot" is highly misleading.

      •  Well, of course that's a different case (1+ / 0-)
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        If you want to make changes in the manner in which the election takes place, I'm not objecting to that.

        My only concern is the loss of individual rights that comes when you suffer intimidation from either your employer or your co-workers because you must put your opinion on public record without the protection of a secret ballot.

        •  Card check happens now (1+ / 0-)
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          It happens all the time in union campaigns, it just doesn't do a darn thing to get union recognition for the employees who sign them.

          Ask the employees in any union organizing campaign.  Most of them would gladly sign a card certifying the union if it meant they could end the months or years of employer harassment that comes with the undemocratic ballot process.

    •  first of all William, if you would read the (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Special K, happy camper

      legislation, you would see that the bill does not eliminate an election, it gives workers the choice to go that route if they want to, or to be recognized as a union after a majority sign cards. This point has been made repeatedly in this diary and the fact that you are still talking about eliminating elections tells me that you really must be against workers being able to have a union.

      Secondly, I've been a union organizer for almost a decade, and I've never seen workers "Shunned" by their coworkers or have to deal with a hostile work environment because they don't want to sign a card.

      You know who does create a hostile work environment for pro-union workers? Management. Interesting how you're not so concerned about those workers.

      •  Hey Sally- (0+ / 0-)

         I wonder why none of these talking point spouters is concerned that a union supporter might be in hot water with his fellow workers and management if they sign cards and the union fails to gain recognition? The stereotype of union thugs is laughable, but a lot of people seem to buy it.

        What's the difference between Vietnam and Iraq? Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam.

        by happy camper on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:49:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It is not the secret ballot (0+ / 0-)

       that is objected to, it is the process itself, which is the exact opposite of free and fair. Employers are able to put off elections for months or years, while they fire supporters and organizers, convince workers that if they vote for a union the company will move to Mexico, and then, they are able to ignore the results of the election by simply refusing to bargain.

       EFCA is more than card check, it also forces the employer to actually bargain in good faith. It puts teeth back into the law, which was always intended to protect and actually encourage workers' right to organize.

      If you have a better idea to fix this twisted system, go for it. Card check is proven to work. Some employers agree to it (Ford suppliers are strongly encouraged by Ford to recognize card check). Nobody gets their arm twisted to sign cards. The NLRB still supervises the proceedings.  

      What's the difference between Vietnam and Iraq? Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam.

      by happy camper on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:45:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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