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View Diary: Big Business Goes After Unions to Defeat Democrats (327 comments)

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  •  Your fantasy of thuggish (1+ / 0-)
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    Special K

     union bosses is a right wing construct with little basis in reality. What leverage would an organizer have to pressure anyone?

     The union works for the membership. If the members don't like their representatives they vote them out. Organizers have nothing to use to intimidate anyone.

    What's the difference between Vietnam and Iraq? Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam.

    by happy camper on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:05:14 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  then why don't we do card-check elections (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Justanothernyer, DRKos

      for government?

      Secret ballots are a cornerstone of a free, functioning democracy.

      Organizers have plenty of tools to coerce employees. What do you think would happen if an organizer were to tell pro-union employees "We know you'd like to have a union, but Joe Bob disagrees. He's preventing you from getting all of the benefits that our union would provide."

      I think life at work for Joe Bob would suddenly become a lot less pleasant, due to his perceived intransigence. Peer pressure can be very intense!

      •  You really are dense (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Special K

         Union organizers don't coerce. They don't need to. Half the people in this country would join a union idf they had the chance. They convince people through showing them the facts.

         Peer pressure. You think work is like high school? The pressure exerted by the boss--vote for the union and you lose your job--is a hell of a lot more serious than arguing with a co-worker about organizing.

        What do you think would happen if an organizer were to tell pro-union employees "We know you'd like to have a union, but Joe Bob disagrees. He's preventing you from getting all of the benefits that our union would provide.

        Joe Bob's buddies would try their best to convince him to vote for the union. If anybody was too rude, Joe Bob would likely tell them to fuck off. Then he wouldn't vote for the union.

         You seem to have some funny ideas about what goes on in a blue collar workplace. Ever been in one?

        What's the difference between Vietnam and Iraq? Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam.

        by happy camper on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:25:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  so? (0+ / 0-)

          Nothing you've said obviates the need for secret elections. Arguing over which intimidation is worse is beside the point. The point of secret ballots is to eliminate intimidation from both sides.

          As was pointed out in other comments, the AFL-CIO freely admits that many people will sign cards simply to get the organizer to stop harassing them. Unless they can get at least 75% of the workplace to sign the cards, the AFL-CIO doubts they can break 50% in a secret election.

          And you didn't answer my question...if peer pressure is so benign, why don't we use it for government elections? Seems like it would solve lots of problems, not needing all of those punchcards or touchscreen voting booths. Just send out the organizers to collect signatures!

          Oh, wait, every time a banana republic tries that, we (rightly!) denounce it as a sham election.

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