Skip to main content

View Diary: Dred Scott, Explained: It's About Abortion (338 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Not Too Complicated (none)
    If the rape allegations are disproven after the military paid for an abortion, then the woman should have to repay the expenses.  Such a policy would prevent false charges for purposes of getting funding.
    •  Investigating (none)
      Would cost more than the procedure.

      O it is excellent to have a giant's strength; but it is tyrannous To use it like a giant--Shakespeare, Measure for Measure, Act II

      by ogre on Sat Oct 09, 2004 at 10:38:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Any Allegation That Serious... (none)
        ...would have to get investigated anyway.  If a woman steps forward and brings charges which is traumatic enough, no need to require "proof" just for purposes of forwarding relatively small amount for costs.
        •  Dude... (4.00)
          the way you are dancing around all these complexities is almost farcical. You're trying to find a justification for maintaining your so-called "pro-life" stance AND retaining your right to think of yourself as compassionate and liberal and reasonable.

          It WON'T WASH. The ramifications of what you are suggesting put an UNDUE BURDEN on the woman. Not only is she raped, but she has to go through another rape at the hands of a system that has now put a monetary price on her being able to prove the rape.

          WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT.

          Rage, rage, against the lying of the Right.

          by Maryscott OConnor on Sat Oct 09, 2004 at 10:57:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You're not thinking this through (none)
          A woman comes forward, pregnant.  

          She affirms that she was raped.  She admits she didn't report it, she was just so freaked out that she didn't.

          A friend affirms that she was told about the rape at the time, but couldn't persuade her friend to report it....

          She's 6 weeks pregnant.  She says she missed her period and just kept praying that she was late...

          There will be no physical evidence.  She says she didn't recognize her attacker.

          Your investigation will look at what?

          It's an absurd system that you're proposing.  It would be a snap to game it.  And people would.  Why create systems that beg people to lie and cheat?

          O it is excellent to have a giant's strength; but it is tyrannous To use it like a giant--Shakespeare, Measure for Measure, Act II

          by ogre on Sun Oct 10, 2004 at 01:56:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  This post is obviously being made by someone... (none)
          ...who has neither experience with rape on a personal level nor experience with dealing with rape cases in any legal capacity.  Try not to be too hard on them.
    •  Now you are sounding like the mullahs (4.00)
      Rape is only prosecuted in Ilam when there are FOUR witnesses (male of course).

      This is why Rove didn't want to run against Dean in the first place. Dean/Obama 2008/12

      by Genf on Sat Oct 09, 2004 at 10:52:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  funding abortion? (4.00)
        tell you what:

        when health insurance plans stop paying for Viagra, they can stop paying for abortions.

        If you think the Rethugs care about actual living people, consider that they OPPOSE funding planned parenthood programs (except when planning = abstinence).  Their motto:  keep 'em ignorant, pregnant, barefoot and under control.

      •  Actually you don't need 4 MALE witnesses (none)
        That's some American made-up crap.

        In Islam, you need 3 witnesess.  Now as far as their gender is concerned, 2 women = 1 man.  As an American AND as a opinionated woman, that smarts.  I asked in Sunday school why is that and it all boils down to menstruation.  This is also why women don't pray or fast while on their periods.  Oddly enough, this is also why you don't see many female sushi chefs, but that's another subject.  

        Basically, there are ony 2 weeks out of a month that a woman is hormonally balanced.  Those other 2 weeks, her perception of what was said/done and what was meant by those actions may be affected by these hormones.  That is why 2 women are needed.  It's kinda like a back-up system.  

        Now, not just any old man will do.  If there was a male witness, but he was known to be a drugged up, pedophile thief, he's not going to be taken at face value.

        Now, I'll probably get some crap for this, but this is what the Qu'ran and Hadiths say.  What is actually practiced is different depending on what country you're in.  I just feel that everyone deserves the right to know the facts.

         

        If you repeat a lie, it becomes your truth. And if you repeat a lie often enough, you become a Republican. - Betty Bowers

        by fabooj on Sun Oct 10, 2004 at 12:23:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The facts (4.00)
          link

          The Hudud Bill drafted by the Terengganu state government constitutes a gross violation of the principles of justice and equality in Islam.

          Under this Bill, a woman who reports she has been raped will be charged for qazaf (slanderous accusation) and flogged 80 lashes if she is unable to prove the rape.

          An unmarried woman who is pregnant is assumed to have committed zina, even if she has been raped.

          A woman cannot be a witness.

          It is perverse that the drafters of this bill should regard rape as a woman's defence against prosecution for zina rather than as a violent and serious crime against women. It is even more unjust that the bill places the burden of proof of rape squarely on the woman's shoulders and will flog her 80 lashes if she does not provide clear proof of the rape.

          The victim's police report of rape is then taken as a confession of illicit sex in these countries. Judges have concluded that the intercourse therefore had the consent of the victim and found the rape victim guilty of zina, while the alleged rapist is released for lack of evidence. In some cases, the rape victim is also found guilty of qazaf because she could not produce the four male witnesses to prove rape and therefore has slandered the alleged rapist's good name. The only way a rapist can be convicted under this so-called Hudud law is through a confession, which, in any case, he can withdraw at any time later.

          These irrational provisions that discriminate against women are man-made innovations; there are no such provisions in the Qur'an and authentic hadith. On the contrary, the Qur'anic provisions are very protective of women.

          The requirement of (at least) four witnesses that is provided for in the literal meaning of Surah An-Nur 24 : 4 was specially revealed to protect women from slander and casual accusations of zina, not to protect men from charges of rape :

          And those [masculine plural] who launch a charge against chaste women [muhsanat-feminine plural], and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations) - flog them [masculine plural] with eighty stripes and reject their [masculine plural] evidence ever after; for such men are wicked transgressors

          This is why Rove didn't want to run against Dean in the first place. Dean/Obama 2008/12

          by Genf on Sun Oct 10, 2004 at 12:56:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thank you. (none)
            My point still remains that these laws are made by the state.

            If you repeat a lie, it becomes your truth. And if you repeat a lie often enough, you become a Republican. - Betty Bowers

            by fabooj on Sun Oct 10, 2004 at 03:11:53 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  My instant response to that... (4.00)
          Oh yeah? Well, with all that testosterone, men are hormonally unbalanced every day of the year.

          What a load of... excuse me. I was about to use language I just don't use. (Hanging out on these here internets sure is corrupting me.)

          If a landslide falls in the bit bucket... was there an election?

          by Canadian Reader on Sun Oct 10, 2004 at 07:04:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Hey, I don't make the rules... (none)
            I'm just saying what I was taught growing up and what I read.

            I've never thought that ALL men were balanced.  You should have seen the overly hormonal guys I went to school with.  LOL!  

            If you repeat a lie, it becomes your truth. And if you repeat a lie often enough, you become a Republican. - Betty Bowers

            by fabooj on Sun Oct 10, 2004 at 07:38:51 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I know you don't make the rules. (none)
              My indignation was not directed at you, but rather, at the infuriating male assumption that because of our reproductive apparatus, women are flighty and unbalanced, thus not to be trusted.

              So. Does a post-menopausal woman count equal to a man as a witness, then? Surely we ought to count for double, compared to those hormone-tortured young men, who are thinking of nothing but their intense desire to get laid.

              I'm kidding. Point is, men and women are in fact equally reliable, and equally unreliable, as witnesses.

              If a landslide falls in the bit bucket... was there an election?

              by Canadian Reader on Sun Oct 10, 2004 at 08:06:51 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site