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View Diary: The Truth About McCain's Torture Vote Reveals His Poor Judgment (34 comments)

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  •  yes, agreed (0+ / 0-)

    And I also agree that it is something that needs to be focused-on and examined- but without any reference to JM breaking and giving-up information. We can't define that experience because it is beyond the comprehension of nearly all of us. However, to use ones torture in captivity for political advantage and sympathy while at the same time voting to authorize American torture- now that is a real moral question.

    •  I think we can but it will take unsealing his (1+ / 0-)
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      leveymg

      POW records, he is no hero PERIOD!

      •  release the records (1+ / 0-)
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        snackdoodle

        that's a good angle, but I still think that we need to concede POW=hero, possibly damaged hero. Not going to sway any votes by attacking the POW experience. Hopefully, the military records will raise questions as to competence. Don't think it will raise questions about heroism in N.Viet Nam.

        •  I have a lot of questions about his character (1+ / 0-)
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          imamish

          I will give him he is a survivor, like a cockroach. He doesn't care really what the consequences are to anyone else as long as he is protected. He threw the POW/MIA families under the bus to protect himself. He was pushing for normalization very early and when he visited NV he greeted his former torturers as old friends. He has no problem with hanging our current military under the bus either. The fact we hear the over blown story about his POW experience nd then he votes FOR torture, WTF!

      •  Which the Vietnamese have been intimidated (1+ / 0-)
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        snackdoodle

        into keeping sealed and which the DOD is not likely to release while Bush is in office.

        ...Former candidate for Congress.

        by Steve Love on Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 09:34:48 AM PDT

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        •  No, it was a Congressional decision to seal (0+ / 0-)

          those records and NOT go for a full accounting. We have NO access to any of the DOD records for any VN POW/MIA. The NV records likely still exist but because we never made them turn them over during the process of a full accounting we will probably never know. Extremely convenient for McCain.

          •  And how did Congress, in its wisdom decide (1+ / 0-)
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            snackdoodle

            to seal this stuff?  Was McCain involved?  I think so!  Whatever, the machinism, it is, I agree, most convenient for McCain.

            ...Former candidate for Congress.

            by Steve Love on Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 10:02:13 AM PDT

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            •  Yes McCain pushed hard for it (1+ / 0-)
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              imamish

              he said allowing those records to be available and the search for those unaccounted for would be too painful to the POW/MIA families.  From as diary I am working on about McCain

              In 1991 the Senate approved the creation of the Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs. McCain, already a seasoned Senator fought against the release of POW documents and debriefings. Records that would have been declassified and available years ago. We have had access to the same kind of records for the Korean War for years.  The Vietnam records are now sealed forever and even the families of the missing do not have access to them. The sealing of those records also sealed the information concerning live sightings of those still in country. McCain's explanation, his excuse is that no one proven to still still alive and releasing the files inflict painful memories and emotiona stress to former POWs and the families of the missing. The idea they will never know has caused these families even more pain.

              In 1994 President Clinton normalized diplomatic ties to Vietnam. US investment flowed into Vietnam. McCain was an early advocate for the North Vietnamese, going so far as to fight against war crimes trials for those responsible for the deaths of POWs. At the time, in 1996, only the remains of 8 missing had been returned. During the Senate MIA/Pow hearings McCain face to face with his torturer (" a psychotic torturer, one of the worst fiends we had to deal with.") , McCain embraced him like a long lost friend. He ignored the pleas of other former POWs and their families to not normalize relations with Vietnam without a full accounting. During this time McCain returned to Vietnam a dozen times and on some occasions met with his old captors. One, the commander at the Hanoi Hilton, Tran Trong Duyet, they greeted each other warmly like buddys. Duyet commented he would vote for McCain if possible. Duyet also denied McCain was ever tortured at the Hanoi Hilton.

              In 1996, 23 years after John McCain came home another similar bill, the Missing Service Personnel Act came up in the Senate. It was to force the Pentagon to expend more resources immediately to search for MIAs. McCain worked to have the bill stripped of the ability of Congress to enforce this legislation and ANY criminal liability. McCain frequently exploded in inappropriate anger in committee meetings for the bill. Over the span of six presidents the plight of MIAs left behind has not been addressed, but John McCain has succeeded in keeping his files sealed and the secrets with them.

    •  Do you really think we are that dumb? (1+ / 0-)
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      imamish

      What do you mean it is "beyond comprehension?"  Give me a break!  You don't have to be a member of Mensa to know about torture...or what torture is that DOESN'T HAPPEN!  McCain is trading on his POW years based on his heroic version of it, NOT the truth that he has at one time or another told, in one form or another, but which now seems to have been rewritten for political purposes. He has also asked us to believe that all we need to know is his POW years, as though that is the sum-total of his military career. We are never asked to wonder why the son and grandson of admirals never got a single star and ends his career as commander of a training squadron and Senate liaison.  
        I agree that his position on torture reveals poor judgment, however, his willingness to trade on a distorted story of his life for political purposes shows, not just poor judgment but an ethical flexability, shall we say, and inability to sustain a commit to oaths he has taken...to the country and to his first wife and family!!!  The history of John McCain is that of someone willing to modify his sense of duty and obligation to fit the demands of his self-interest and momentary convenience.  This man is unfit for the presidency for several reason, not the least of which is his judgment.

      ...Former candidate for Congress.

      by Steve Love on Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 09:33:04 AM PDT

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