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View Diary: AP Fact Check Is Wrong...In McCain's Favor (270 comments)

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  •  I don't give the Democrats a pass on .. (4+ / 0-)

    ...this. While it's true that this was pushed and hard by Phil Gramm and other Republicans, the bill passed the Senate 90-8. The House passed it 362-57.

    Your critique of and fury at the AP take on this I strongly agree with. But deregulation and all the fall-out from it does indeed have bipartisan roots, showing just how far the Democratic Party had fallen from the FDR legacy by 1999.

    I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land. -- Mark Twain

    by Meteor Blades on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 08:18:14 AM PDT

    •  Since when was deregulation a democrat initiative (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      csquared

      ?? It's like blaming the republicans for Universal Heathcare. It's their idea, they should take pesponsibility for it.

      "It's getting late early" - Yogi Berra

      by buckshot face on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 08:23:42 AM PDT

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      •  Since when? Since Jimmy Carter hired ... (0+ / 0-)

        ...Alfred Kahn, a key person in deregulation mania, to chair the Civil Aeronautics Boards. Airlines, trucking and railroads were deregulated under Carter. Democrats across the country were heavily involved, sometimes leading, the push to deregulate the energy business.

        I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land. -- Mark Twain

        by Meteor Blades on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 08:39:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Is there extreme leverage involved in (0+ / 0-)

          those industries that would require 20 times  the total value of the industries value  needed to bail them out???

          "It's getting late early" - Yogi Berra

          by buckshot face on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 08:47:49 AM PDT

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          •  I've argued against deregulation ... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            esquimaux

            ...editorially for more than 30 years. It has had substantial support from Democrats during that period. It started under Nixon, picked up steam under Jimmy Carter and went full-blown under Reagan. Gramm-Leach-Bliley was "just" another piece of legislation on this road, the culmination, if you will, of a bad concept. A bipartisan concept, though, of course, there were many Democrats in opposition. But not nearly enough.

            I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land. -- Mark Twain

            by Meteor Blades on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 08:58:04 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Ummmm (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Meteor Blades

        Since when was deregulation a democrat initiative

        The Telecommunications Act of 1996?

        Bill Clinton (and other Democrats) are big fans of both deregulation and privatization of government.

        <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

        by superscalar on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 10:07:00 AM PDT

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    •  True, but (0+ / 0-)

      The AP was wrong attaching a "fact check" to an opinion expressed by Obama that mentioned nothing about the fact they were supposedly checking. Nothing in Obama's statement excuses Clinton or any other Democrat.

      "It is often pleasant to stone a martyr, no matter how much we admire him"...John Barth

      by Giles Goat Boy on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 08:24:30 AM PDT

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      •  Not saying that. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Giles Goat Boy

        What I am saying is it's a fact that deregulation was a republican idea. Take responsibilty for it. I can't even beleive Obama didn't hammer McCain every time he brought up Reagan. The American public neds to know about financial derivatives and how it relates to this mess and how they were allowed to be pawned off to Investmant banks. That is the problem. America is being kept in the dark. Paulson refuses to justify the amount of the bailout. These derivatives are being kept a secret.

        "It's getting late early" - Yogi Berra

        by buckshot face on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 08:29:52 AM PDT

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        •  We agree (0+ / 0-)

          I was replying to Meteor Blades, with whom I also agree in principle, but I wanted to clarify that Obama was expressing an opinion, not a "fact" to be checked.

          "It is often pleasant to stone a martyr, no matter how much we admire him"...John Barth

          by Giles Goat Boy on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 08:39:24 AM PDT

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    •  Deregulation (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      relentless

      Is a bipartisan strategy.

      Driven by Capitalists and their lobbyists.

      I would say it is now out of fashion,

      Until next year at least.

      Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing. ~Arundhati Roy

      by LaFeminista on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 08:31:40 AM PDT

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      •  It's not a bipartisan strategy when a Republican (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        csquared

        controlled congress pushes thru the repeal of Glass-Steagall. The Republican's had veto override majority when it was pushed thru. It's a Republican problem.

        "It's getting late early" - Yogi Berra

        by buckshot face on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 08:35:27 AM PDT

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        •  Puhleez. Veto override authority? Not ... (0+ / 0-)

          ...without Democratic votes they didn't. The Senate split at the time was 55R 45D, the House was split 223R 211D.

          The Republicans needed 12 Dems in the Senate and 67 Dems in the House to override if Clinton had vetoed.

          Yes, banking deregulation was a Republican idea pushed by Republicans, including that reptile Phil Gramm. But Democrats were deeply complicit.  

          I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land. -- Mark Twain

          by Meteor Blades on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 08:50:55 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  amen (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      relentless, polar bear

      And I have no doubt that the inevitable fraud investigations will snag Dems as well as Repugs. Wall Street rules, no matter who is in office.  

      Watching Nader on Bill Maher last night, I was indeed struck by something Maher said -- this is how the DEMOCRATS should be sounding.  It's the kind of issues that Dems USED to care about.

      Indeed, it used to BE how the Dems sounded -- until they all started pee'ing their pants every time some Rethug yelled "liberal!!!" at them.

      I want my party back, dammit.

      Editor, Red and Black Publishers http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

      by Lenny Flank on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 08:44:47 AM PDT

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      •  It gets back to the voter. (0+ / 0-)

        Voters were becoming more republican. Remember when 88% of the country was all for the Iraq war and any politician that stood in the way was committing suicide??? The down side of Democracy and the media.

        "It's getting late early" - Yogi Berra

        by buckshot face on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 08:51:14 AM PDT

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        •  I see, so it's government by poll results? (0+ / 0-)

          Whichever way the wind blows?

          Ain't that why the Dems all became Republicans in the first place?

          Editor, Red and Black Publishers http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

          by Lenny Flank on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 09:05:27 AM PDT

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          •  I can only speak for myself. (0+ / 0-)

            I was shocked how many Democrats became blood thirsty after 9/11.

            "It's getting late early" - Yogi Berra

            by buckshot face on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 11:13:04 AM PDT

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            •  well I wasn't shocked at all (0+ / 0-)

              The Dems are just as much in love with the neocon "New American Century" as the Repugs are.  

              Years after the Iraq quagmire started, both Obama and McCain want to suck us into an even bigger quagmire in Afghanistan and (if they get their way) Pakistan.

              We've learned nothing from our mistakes.  

              Editor, Red and Black Publishers http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

              by Lenny Flank on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 12:15:59 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  FTR: The highest level of support for ... (0+ / 0-)

          ...the Iraq war came in November 2001: 78%. By October 2002, as the Iraq War Resolution was being voted on, this had dropped to 64% in the highest poll. For instance, the Gallup Poll in October 2002:

          Would you favor or oppose invading Iraq with U.S. ground troops in an attempt to remove Saddam Hussein from power? 56% said yes.

          And, while a slight majority of Senate Dems voted for the war resolution, a majority of House Dems opposed it.

          I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land. -- Mark Twain

          by Meteor Blades on Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 09:07:48 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Where are you getting your info? (0+ / 0-)

      According to this link, the Democrats voted against it.

      Now I am confused.

      The government was at some points becoming a 'one party' rule, due to many things, some of which was bad media and republican lite Democrats.

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