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View Diary: Joe The Plumber Admits He Wasn't Undecided After All (586 comments)

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  •  let's talk substance, not style here (33+ / 0-)

    Two things.

    I've owned or co-owned three businesses, so somebody explain to me why anybody would buy a plumbing business with two employees? Nobody does that. They start their own business, hire away the key employee, coddle a good handful of key clients, and move on.

    Second thing: Can we please talk about net vs. gross when business taxes come up? Unless I'm way wrong, and memory fades when taxes are involved, businesses are typically taxed on their net profits, which are quite different from gross receipts.

    If Joe the Plumber is buying a business which NETS $250k a year, then, yeah, he should be taxed accordingly. If that's its gross, it's a whole other story.

    Beware all ventures which require new clothes, and not a new wearer of clothes. -- Henry David Thoreau

    by Shocko from Seattle on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 07:29:38 AM PDT

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    •  That's what I was thinking (7+ / 0-)

      If Joe was buying a business with $250K net he'd probably need to pay 6 to 10 times (adjusted) earnings for it. In this case that might be somewhere around $1.5 and $2.5 million. With two employees, that would be insane on the face of it. I'm close to positive this plumber gets a tax break under Obama's plan. It's hard to believe but I doubt if McCain understands the difference between gross and net. This whole thing with Joe is unmitigated BS.

      "The issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should." John Sydney McCain III 2008

      by thefretgenie on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 07:36:26 AM PDT

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    •  The real issue here is not taxes, it's trust (6+ / 0-)

      Katie asks the man if he falls into the tax bracket where Obama says he'll raise taxes. His response is no, but he's afraid Obama will lower the bracket so he'll be included.

      The problem this man has, then, is that he doesn't trust Obama enough to take his word that he'll implement the tax policy he says he'll implement. This goes to the root of the strategy the GOP has employed against Obama, making him scary and different, saying he doesn't share your values, and tarring him with the Democratic tax-and-spend stereotype. Joe simply shows that this GOP strategy has been successful to some extent.

      If Joe doesn't trust Obama to implement his tax plan the way he promises he will, then Joe won't trust Obama to implement his health care plan, his economic plan, his Iraq plan, his education plan, and on and on. Trust is a core issue, because if you can undermine a candidate's trust, it doesn't matter what policies they present, voters won't believe them. Instead, they'll fall back upon whatever preconceived notions they have of the candidate and/or party, and the messaging of the opponent. If voters don't trust you, then all oppo sticks to you like glue.

      This is what happened to Kerry, who was successfully portrayed as an effete intellectual and traitor, and to Gore, who was portrayed as a serial exaggerator. Thankfully those sorts of characterizations have not stuck to Obama, so his trust issues are only relevant for wingnuts, conspiracy theorists, and racists.

      Judging from the "Sammy Davis Jr." comment, I'm guessing he's in the third category.

    •  But if Joe is a plumber, why (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Debby, chigh, UPDoc

      isn't he identified as a licensed contractor in the state of Ohio?

      •  Because he's not. (0+ / 0-)

        Nightline confirmed it for me tonight that Joe is not licensed. Joe also owes back taxes to Ohio.

        My local news tonight went to the Plumbers and Steamfitters Union and had all these people saying, "I'm Candy the plumber!" "I'm Sam the plumber!" "I'm Raoul the plumber!" They didn't mention Obama specifically but they talked about the need for decent healthcare, fair wages, etc. It was pretty cool and kind of surprising from my local station whom I expected to be lackeys.

        tragically un-hip
        ..- .... --..-- / --- -.- .-.-.-

        -5.88, -6.82

        by Debby on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 10:02:15 PM PDT

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