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View Diary: Joe The Plumber Admits He Wasn't Undecided After All (586 comments)

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  •  The Straight Dope on The McCain Plant (15+ / 9-)

    Name: SAMUEL JOSEPH WURZELBACHER  
    Date of Birth: 12/3/1973

    Addresses:
    355 SHREWSBURY ST, HOLLAND OH 43528-9520    
    30 DERBYSHIRE RD, TOLEDO OH 43615-5515    
    5956 WALNUT CIR APT APT-I, TOLEDO OH 43615-6601    
    5768 STEFFENS AVE, TOLEDO OH 43623-1633    
    1960 W KEATING AVE APT 150, MESA AZ 85202-7011    
    1960-A W KEATING AVE APT 592, MESA AZ 85202-7077    
    7195 W ODESSY WAY, TUCSON AZ 85743    
    1214 CEDAR AVE UNIT B, GRAND FORKS AFB ND 58204-4033    
    GENERAL DELIVERY, GRAND FORKS ND 58201-9999    
    3397 DELWOOD ST, NORTH POLE AK 99705    
    736 OUIDA WAY APT A, NORTH POLE AK 99705-7684    
    6620 BRINT RD, SYLVANIA OH 43560-3122    
    7950 E STELLA RD APT 13K, TUCSON AZ 85730-1947

    Liens and Judgments:
           Filing Number:   CVF0705807
           Filing Type:  CIVIL NEW FILING
           Location:  LUCAS COUNTY MUNICIPAL COURT
           State:  OH
           Original Filing Date: 3/27/2007
           Amount: $1,261
           Debtor Name: SAMUEL WURZELBACHER
           Debtor SSN: 271-66-xxxx
           Debtor Address: 355 SHREWSBURY ST, HOLLAND OH 43528-9520
           Creditor: ST CHARLES MERCY HOSPITAL

           Filing Number:   LN0200701803
           Filing Type:  STATE TAX LIEN
           Book/Page:  460/303
           Location:  LUCAS COUNTY COMMON PLEAS
           State:  OH
           Original Filing Date: 1/26/2007
           Amount: $1,182
           Debtor Name: SAMUEL J WURZELBACHER
           Debtor SSN: 271-66-xxxx
           Debtor Address: 30 DERBYSHIRE RD, TOLEDO OH 43615-5515
           Creditor: STATE OF OHIO

           Filing Number:   CV0003328FD
           Filing Type:  CIVIL DISMISSAL
           Location:  SOUTH MESA JUSTICE COURT
           State:  AZ
           Original Filing Date: 11/15/2000
           Debtor Name: SAMUEL WURZELBACHER
           Debtor SSN: 271-66-xxxx
           Debtor Address: 1960 W KEATING AVE APT 150, MESA AZ 85202-7011
           Creditor: WXI MCN ACCO REAL ESTATE LTD

           Filing Number:   CV0003237RB
           Filing Type:  CIVIL DISMISSAL
           Location:  SOUTH MESA JUSTICE COURT
           State:  AZ
           Original Filing Date: 11/9/2000
           Release Date:   1/18/2001
           Debtor Name: SAMUEL WURZELBACHER
           Debtor SSN: 271-66-xxxx
           Debtor Address: 1960 W KEATING AVE APT 150, MESA AZ 85202-7011
           Creditor: MONTGOMERY WARD CREDIT CORP

    Property:
                  Parcel Number - 65-62411
                  Name Owner : WURZELBACHER, SAMUEL
                  Property Address: - 355 SHREWSBURY ST, HOLLAND OH 43528-9520, LUCAS COUNTY
                  Owner Address: 355 SHREWSBURY ST, HOLLAND OH 43528-9520, LUCAS COUNTY
                  Sale Date - 08/06/2008
                  Name of Seller : WURZELBACHER KIMBERLY M
                  Loan Amount - $127,281
                  Loan Type - FEDERAL HOUSING AUTHORITY
                 

         
           Property:
                  Parcel Number - 65-62411
                  Name Owner : WURZELBACHER SAMUEL J
                  Name Owner 2: WURZELBACHER KIMBERLY M
                  Property Address: - 355 SHREWSBURY ST, HOLLAND OH 43528-9520, LUCAS COUNTY
                  Owner Address: 355 SHREWSBURY ST, HOLLAND OH 43528-9520, LUCAS COUNTY
                  Total Market Value - $117,114
                  Assessed Value - $40,990
                  Land Value - $20,800
                  Improvement Value - $96,314
                  Land Size - 7,772 Square Feet
                  Year Built - 1965
                  Name of Seller : QUINTO WALTER A & BONNIE J
                  Loan Amount - $113,850
                  Loan Type - CONVENTIONAL
                  Lender Name - COUNTRYWIDE HM LNS INC
                 

    Offender information
    Name: WURZELBACHER, SAMUEL
    Address: AK
    Case Number: 4FA-93-T709107
    Case Filing Date: 8/12/1993
    Case Type: Minor Offense
    DOB: 12/1973
    SSN: 271-66-XXXX
    Sex: Unknown

    Offenses
    Case Number: 4FA-93-T709107
    Court Description: Fourth District - Fairbanks
    Court Case Number: 4FA-93-T709107
    Court Statute: SPEEDING 74/55
    Court Disposition Date: 8/16/1993

    Offender information
    Name: WURZELBACHER, SAMUEL
    Address: AK
    Case Number: 4FA-93-T709107
    Case Filing Date: 8/12/1993
    Case Type: Minor Offense
    DOB: 12/1973
    SSN: 271-66-XXXX
    Sex: Unknown

    Offenses
    Case Number: 4FA-93-T709107
    Court Description: Fourth District - Fairbanks
    Court Case Number: 4FA-93-T709107
    Court Statute: SPEEDING 74/55
    Court Disposition Date: 8/16/1993

    Source:  webofdeception.com

    You go to war not with the reasons you have, but with the reasons you might want or wish to have. - The Republican Credo

    by judyneric on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 07:30:52 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Interesting (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sfgb, PsychoSavannah, dotster

      Alaska connection.

      Freedom is the distance between church and state - (palin protest sign)

      by xeromachine on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 07:36:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Whether the guy is a plant (13+ / 0-)

      or not, this was just way, way over the line.

      •  I agree (11+ / 0-)

        X 129381092831

        He's a private citizen, and even if he signed up covertly to be put on the national stage, this was uncalled for.

        I'm tempted to HR but I'm restraining myself.

        "Conservatism is everyone you never wanted to grow up to be." -Paul Waldman

        by Kaity on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 07:48:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Same here..... (9+ / 0-)

          ....his records did not need to be posted.

          If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention...

          by strohdecaire on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 07:56:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I disagree (8+ / 0-)

            He willingly stepped into the public eye. This is just like the whole brouhaha over the CBS forged documents in 2004. This guys appears to be a plant and a poorly executed one. He needs to be exposed.

            Lord Make a Way! Lord Make a Way! Make a Way For Hussein! http://nualasdaddy.typepad.com/another_overdocumented_li/

            by HarlemUSA on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:14:22 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You can "expose" him (6+ / 0-)

              without printing most of his social security number and his criminal record. A list of "known residences," with just the names of towns, would have been sufficient.

              "Conservatism is everyone you never wanted to grow up to be." -Paul Waldman

              by Kaity on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:15:41 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Unfortunately (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Vicky, judyneric

                Those types of records are pretty accessible now. It's amazing how easy it is to get people's SS#. Once you have been a part of any kind of court case your person information is out there! If I was that commenter I, personally, would have XXXXX'd out the whole SS#.

                Lord Make a Way! Lord Make a Way! Make a Way For Hussein! http://nualasdaddy.typepad.com/another_overdocumented_li/

                by HarlemUSA on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:19:10 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Just because it's easy (5+ / 0-)

                  doesn't make it right. I could do a lot of unsavoury things on the internet easily, that doesn't mean I do them.

                  Like I said, if the commentor felt the need to discredit him in this way, most of that information was unnecessary to do so.

                  "Conservatism is everyone you never wanted to grow up to be." -Paul Waldman

                  by Kaity on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:20:51 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  And x'd out (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  PsychoSavannah, judyneric, Kaity, scotths

                  The numbers in the addresses. No need for that. xxxx Keating way would have been fine. Same point.

                  This was over the line. I have to agree with the other posters here.

                  I still root for the dreamer. I thank God for the dreamer ~ Mos Def, Lifetime

                  by alkalinesky on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:38:29 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  "Keating Way." (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    PsychoSavannah, judyneric, scotths

                    One couldn't have made this up if one tried.

                    "It's embarrassing when you try to overthrow the government and you wind up on the best sellers list."--Abbie Hoffman

                    by ekthesy on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:45:30 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I'm not against (4+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      zett, PsychoSavannah, judyneric, Kaity

                      The outing of the information. Indeed, it's what we do best here - scoop the trad. media. But my point is that the EXACT same information could have been conveyed with the least amount of information displayed. Think HIPPA for blog posts. The OP could have exposed the information (which is important) while x-ing out the finer details (which is irrelevant and somewhat intimidating).

                      I still root for the dreamer. I thank God for the dreamer ~ Mos Def, Lifetime

                      by alkalinesky on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 09:02:17 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Yep. (5+ / 0-)

                        You are all correct. I should not have posted all of it, but at the same time, I should have posted all of it.

                        I should have because the guy is a tool. Also, it is all publicly gathered info.

                        But I shouldn't have because I could have posted the thrust of the matter without getting down to such deep specifics.

                        I guess I vetted the info just about as well as the McCain campaign vetted "Sam the Plumber" before they decided to use him to harm Barack Obama's campaign!

                        Here is the info with some of it redacted. Just troll rate the original out of existence.

                        Name: SAMUEL JOSEPH WURZELBACHER  
                        Date of Birth: 12/XX/1973

                        Addresses:
                        XXX SHREWSBURY ST, HOLLAND OH  
                        XX DERBYSHIRE RD, TOLEDO OH
                        XXXX WALNUT CIR APT APT-I, TOLEDO OH    
                        XXXX STEFFENS AVE, TOLEDO OH    
                        XXXX W KEATING AVE APT 150, MESA AZ
                        XXXX-X W KEATING AVE APT 592, MESA AZ
                        XXXX W ODESSY WAY, TUCSON AZ
                        XXXX CEDAR AVE UNIT B, GRAND FORKS AFB ND
                        GENERAL DELIVERY, GRAND FORKS ND    
                        XXXX DELWOOD ST, NORTH POLE AK (ALASKA!)
                        XXX OUIDA WAY APT A, NORTH POLE AK    
                        XXXX BRINT RD, SYLVANIA OH 43560-3122    
                        XXXX E STELLA RD APT 13K, TUCSON AZ 85730-1947

                        Liens and Judgments:
                              Filing Number:   CVF0705807
                              Filing Type:  CIVIL NEW FILING
                              Location:  LUCAS COUNTY MUNICIPAL COURT
                              State:  OH
                              Original Filing Date: 3/27/2007
                              Amount: $1,261
                              Debtor Name: SAMUEL WURZELBACHER
                              Debtor SSN: xxxx-xx-xxxx
                              Debtor Address: XXX SHREWSBURY ST, HOLLAND OH        Creditor: ST CHARLES MERCY HOSPITAL

                              Filing Number:   LN0200701803
                              Filing Type:  STATE TAX LIEN
                              Book/Page:  460/303
                              Location:  LUCAS COUNTY COMMON PLEAS
                              State:  OH
                              Original Filing Date: 1/26/2007
                              Amount: $1,182
                              Debtor Name: SAMUEL J WURZELBACHER
                              Debtor SSN: xxxx-xx-xxxx
                              Debtor Address: XX DERBYSHIRE RD, TOLEDO OH
                              Creditor: STATE OF OHIO

                              Filing Number:   CV0003328FD
                              Filing Type:  CIVIL DISMISSAL
                              Location:  SOUTH MESA JUSTICE COURT
                              State:  AZ
                              Original Filing Date: 11/15/2000
                              Debtor Name: SAMUEL WURZELBACHER
                              Debtor SSN: xxxx-xx-xxxx
                              Debtor Address: XXXX W KEATING AVE APT 150,
                              Creditor: WXI MCN ACCO REAL ESTATE LTD

                              Filing Number:   CV0003237RB
                              Filing Type:  CIVIL DISMISSAL
                              Location:  SOUTH MESA JUSTICE COURT
                              State:  AZ
                              Original Filing Date: 11/9/2000
                              Release Date:   1/18/2001
                              Debtor Name: SAMUEL WURZELBACHER
                              Debtor SSN: xxxx-xx-xxxx
                              Debtor Address: XXXX W KEATING AVE APT 150, MESA AZ
                              Creditor: MONTGOMERY WARD CREDIT CORP

                        Property:
                                     Parcel Number - 65-62411
                                     Name Owner : WURZELBACHER, SAMUEL
                                     Property Address: - XXX SHREWSBURY ST, HOLLAND OH , LUCAS COUNTY
                                     Owner Address: 355 SHREWSBURY ST, HOLLAND OH , LUCAS COUNTY
                                     Sale Date - 08/06/2008
                                     Name of Seller : WURZELBACHER XXXX X
                                     Loan Amount - $127,281
                                     Loan Type - FEDERAL HOUSING AUTHORITY
                                   

                           
                              Property:
                                     Parcel Number - 65-62411
                                     Name Owner : WURZELBACHER SAMUEL J
                                     Name Owner 2: WURZELBACHER XXXXXX X
                                     Property Address: - XXX SHREWSBURY ST, HOLLAND OH, LUCAS COUNTY
                                     Owner Address: XXX SHREWSBURY ST, HOLLAND OH 43528-9520, LUCAS COUNTY
                                     Total Market Value - $117,114
                                     Assessed Value - $40,990
                                     Land Value - $20,800
                                     Improvement Value - $96,314
                                     Land Size - 7,772 Square Feet
                                     Year Built - 1965
                                     Name of Seller : XXXXX XXXXX X & XXXXX X
                                     Loan Amount - $113,850
                                     Loan Type - CONVENTIONAL
                                     Lender Name - COUNTRYWIDE HM LNS INC
                                   

                        Offender information
                        Name: WURZELBACHER, SAMUEL
                        Address: AK
                        Case Number: 4FA-93-T709107
                        Case Filing Date: 8/12/1993
                        Case Type: Minor Offense
                        DOB: 12/1973
                        SSN: xxxx-xx-XXXX
                        Sex: Unknown

                        Offenses
                        Case Number: 4FA-93-T709107
                        Court Description: Fourth District - Fairbanks
                        Court Case Number: 4FA-93-T709107
                        Court Statute: SPEEDING 74/55
                        Court Disposition Date: 8/16/1993

                        Offender information
                        Name: WURZELBACHER, SAMUEL
                        Address: AK
                        Case Number: 4FA-93-T709107
                        Case Filing Date: 8/12/1993
                        Case Type: Minor Offense
                        DOB: 12/1973
                        SSN: xxxx-xx-XXXX
                        Sex: Unknown

                        Offenses
                        Case Number: 4FA-93-T709107
                        Court Description: Fourth District - Fairbanks
                        Court Case Number: 4FA-93-T709107
                        Court Statute: SPEEDING 74/55
                        Court Disposition Date: 8/16/1993

                        Source:  Sammy The Plumber Info

                        You go to war not with the reasons you have, but with the reasons you might want or wish to have. - The Republican Credo

                        by judyneric on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 09:50:37 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

            •  Crap. (5+ / 0-)

              He "appears" to be a poorly executed plant so he must be exposed?  If he is a plant (so what?), printing that stuff is supposed to do what? If he's not a plant, it's still okay, because he "appeared" to be one?

              Publishing those records isn't exposing whether he's a plant.  All publishing those records does is to say that we're as silly as the Freepers and Malkinistas.  

        •  I'm not restraing myself. (6+ / 0-)

          Do we need to go check out his cabinet tops now?  This stuff is every bit as lame as Malkin.

          •  I was jumped all over last week (4+ / 0-)

            for HRing someone who said something sexist about Palin, so I've been wary to give them out since then. Not that I think I was wrong, but it's not worth the bullshit when two or three people decide YOU'RE THE MOST UNREASONABLE PERSON EVER and then you have to defend yourself.

            "Conservatism is everyone you never wanted to grow up to be." -Paul Waldman

            by Kaity on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:16:54 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I know. (5+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sfgb, zett, PsychoSavannah, Kaity, alkalinesky

              But I've found that I don't have to defend myself from every bullshit comment and HR that comes my way, and I'm much happier now.  Posting all that stuff, even if it's public record, is stupid.  When we do that crap, we act just like reichtards, and when we justify it, our justifications sound just like theirs.  

              Frankly, I don't care whether Joe was a plant.  If he was, Obama handled it correctly when they first talked, by dealing with the issues.  Obama handled it well last night, when he dealt with the issues.  If Joe was a plant, so what?  It doesn't change our stance on the issues, and it doesn't change the fact that the Reichtards don't like it.  There's not enough substance to Joe, or to his objections to Obama, for it to matter.  

              On the other hand, turning whether Joe is or isn't a plant just lengthens the Joe newscycle.  Posting Joe's personal info is not only tawdry, it's an almost guaranteed way to gin up sympathy for poor ole Joe.

              You'd think that people would think.

        •  This is all public information (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          judyneric

          I don't see any problem with posting public information. There may be valid arguments to be made about this kind of information being public in the first place, but as long as it is public, I don't see any point in pretending it isn't there.

          •  Did you have a problem with it (0+ / 0-)

            when it was Graeme Frost's family that was having their private lives exposed?  This guy had Obama come to his yard, and he asked Obama a question.  Graeme Frost gave the Democrat's weekly address on nationwide radio.  Yet the people who dug into his family's personal information were attacked without mercy (and rightfully so).

            Whether this guy was a plant or not (don't see how he could be, as he was at his house when Obama came a'-callin') is of little to no relevance.  It could have been a completely hypothetical question, and not matter.  What matters is Obama's answer.

            Conservative since 1992. Open-minded since birth.

            by ShowMe on Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 02:20:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  hardly. Tis available for everyone (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Vicky, judyneric, lgcap

        about everyone.
        public records are just that. Public.
        get used to it. I guarantee someone has searched you out.

        What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

        by agnostic on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:23:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I have to disagree (9+ / 0-)

          This is no different than what the AP did to Droogie. It's not ok, not even for people that we highly disagree with. All of the numerical information in that post could have been x'd out with the exact same point made. This is really looking like intimidation. How easy is it for anyone now to harass this guy, in a personal way? We should not do things we ourselves would not want done to us. This is over the line.

          I still root for the dreamer. I thank God for the dreamer ~ Mos Def, Lifetime

          by alkalinesky on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:40:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  He used to live in North Pole, Alaska??? (13+ / 0-)

      AND on Keating Avenue in Arizona??

    •  Keating Ave in Mesa AZ ? (9+ / 0-)

      Is it time to put on my tinfoil hat?

      And remember: If you don't like the news, go out and make some of your own. - Scoop Nisker, the Last News Show

      by North Madison on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 07:43:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So this pretty much confirms (6+ / 0-)

      Neither fire nor wind, birth nor death can erase our good deeds. Buddha

      by zenbowl on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 07:46:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't see any proof yet (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        judyneric

        But I expect we'll know by the end of the day. Too many people are trying to figure out whether they are father-son or close cousins or distant cousins.

        And remember: If you don't like the news, go out and make some of your own. - Scoop Nisker, the Last News Show

        by North Madison on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:20:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  this is out of line. (8+ / 0-)

      incredibly so.

      "Conservatism is everyone you never wanted to grow up to be." -Paul Waldman

      by Kaity on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 07:52:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Don't we have (13+ / 0-)

      A pretty strict policy against this kind of thing? You could have made the same point and blocked out a LOT of that information. This is not ok to me.

      I still root for the dreamer. I thank God for the dreamer ~ Mos Def, Lifetime

      by alkalinesky on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 07:54:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I've reported the comment in lieu of HRing it. nt (4+ / 0-)

        "Conservatism is everyone you never wanted to grow up to be." -Paul Waldman

        by Kaity on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 07:59:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, no no no no no no no! NO!!! (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Vicky, judyneric

          Look, in my work, I get the same PUBLIC information in most of my cases. It is easily accessible by
          a) a trip to the courthouse.
          b) a call to the court clerk
          c) going online to LEGAL public information access sites.

          everything there is a public document. And the Supreme Court has said that stuff is not protected. repeatedly.

          What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

          by agnostic on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:27:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It doesn't matter if it's "protected" (9+ / 0-)

            it still is innappropriate for this poster to put it up on a site read by thousands of people, the vast vast majority of whom could not simply walk to this guy's town clerk office and get this information.

            I'm not talking about what's legal, I'm talking about what's ethical.

            "Conservatism is everyone you never wanted to grow up to be." -Paul Waldman

            by Kaity on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:30:24 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I can accept your argument, but for one thing (6+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              thm, ekthesy, Vicky, judyneric, chigh, North Madison

              our world has changed. The days of privacy in yesteryear are no longer. To think that they are is foolhardy.

              Except for adoption, child custody, and some other records, ALL COURT RECORDS are public records. Ergo, they are available to anyone, anytime, anyplace. Every state has expungement proceedings available, so if he really cared about his speeding and other violations, he could have easily had them cleared off the books. and off the computer. But he did not.

              the fact that information is not easily available does not change the fact that a public record is a public record. My local paper still publishes each arrest and conviction for local folks. Every issue. Drunk driving, domestic abuse and battery, shop-lifting. Right there on page three. Is that wrong? Is that bad? I don't think so, because as a lawyer, I refuse to beat my partner, while driving drunk as I attempt to steal something from a store.

              The fact that we have a larger readership does not change the "public" nature of this data, nor the data published on Page 3 of my paper. (hell, they publish my LTTEs routinely, and supported my campaign for office, so I have to agree with them, I guess).

              This guy was a plant. That much was clear. What is not clear is whether the MSM will lift a finger to dig out PUBLIC DATA like you and I can do easily.

              So far, they have been lazy, and once again, we scooped them. I think that is a good thing.

              What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

              by agnostic on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:37:35 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  you and i aren't arguing about the same thing. (7+ / 0-)

                you seem to be reasonable, so i'm not getting heated about this.

                my point is this: no matter how "the game has changed," no matter how easy it is to get this information, no matter how angry we might be at the TM, no matter how far up McCain's ass this guy might be, this is unethical.

                there are plenty of ways to discredit him without posting this, or without posting the majority of this information. i don't want BO going on the air tonight and screaming "OMG THOSE LIBERAL ASSHOLES AT DAILYKOS POSTED THIS POOR INNOCENT GUYS PERSONAL INFORMATION" because we desired to "scoop" the MSM.

                In short? It's just not. cool.

                "Conservatism is everyone you never wanted to grow up to be." -Paul Waldman

                by Kaity on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:45:59 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  you make a very IMPORTANT point, (5+ / 0-)

                  and frankly, off the record, I completely agree about the ethics of the situation.

                  I wonder how I would have reacted to the lamp-lighters' union strike in New York (a very dangerous and expensive profession) after Tom Edison turned on his new-fangled electric lamps. All those workers, all the families, all the job security and income - gone with a flip of a switch. The point is, their world changed, and so has ours. I agree, some changes are NOT for the better.

                  On the other hand, when we have MSM under corporate control, swallowing bullshit whole and without any investigation or review, then it becomes necessary to use LEGAL tools for appropriate purposes. And outing a liar, a fake, a product placement for the GOP is perfectly appropriate and ethical.

                  What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

                  by agnostic on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:54:08 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  There's no scoop here. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                sfgb, Kaity

                It's just info about some guy who may or may not have been a plant.  This isn't journalism, it's low-level classless harassment, the kind that Michelle Malkin and her buddies are so good at.  You want to play in that crowd, by those rules, fine.  

                It stinks.  

                •  au contraire (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  judyneric

                  this is precisely how that witch, Anne Coulterguist, was caught breaking federal law by registering twice for the last election.

                  What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

                  by agnostic on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 09:08:10 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Oh? There's a violation of the law here? (0+ / 0-)

                    I don't recall tons of Coulter's personal information being published on the web then.  This is nothing but childish harassment on the order of the Michelle Malkin brigades.  

                    It doesn't make Joe look bad, it makes us look like idiots.

          •  There's a saying about that (5+ / 0-)

            Something along the lines of being legal, but not right.

        •  Well now (0+ / 0-)

          The addresses and info are on the FP. I guess we were wrong about that ethical thing.

          This feels icky. I do not like it.

          I still root for the dreamer. I thank God for the dreamer ~ Mos Def, Lifetime

          by alkalinesky on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 10:18:19 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I have to hide this. (6+ / 0-)

      It is way out of line to post so much personal info about anyone on a public site.

      "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

      by missLotus on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:15:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  you know what, i've changed my mind (5+ / 0-)

        i'm joining you to up the ratio.

        "Conservatism is everyone you never wanted to grow up to be." -Paul Waldman

        by Kaity on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:19:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  NONE OF THAT IS PRIVATE (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        fresburger, Vicky, judyneric

        that is your standard public disclosure, with one of several search engines, some free, some for a low cost.

        This is PUBLIC INFORMATION, even if it can be embarrassing.

        What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

        by agnostic on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:25:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  did anyone notice that at the end of the post (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        judyneric

        of Joe's info, there is a website listed.  DK is not the ONLY place this info is available.  We live in a world where there is no privacy anymore.  Get used to it.  You don't have to like it, but you should acknowledge it.  And, if you go on t.v. talking about presidential candidates during a presidential election year, then you'd better expect that people are going to wonder who you are, and what your story is.  If Joe did not want to be in the public eye, then he should have kept his mouth shut when the media called.  Instead, he decided to toe the Republican line, with NO intellect.  He's got a record.  Nobody's fault but his own.

        Go to www.webofdeception.com and demand they take down the info.  Then go to the courthouses and demand they remove Joe's name from their books.  Then wipe him off of the MSM websites...

        'Man is born free, yet he is everywhere in chains.' - Jean Jacques Rosseau. The Social Contract, 1762 -8.0/-5.9

        by Nyaa on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 09:54:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I don't have the rights to HR... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sfgb, judyneric, Kaity, alkalinesky

      but I would if I could.  Even if he's a plant for McCain, I'd still argue that putting this amount of personal information about anyone who's not running for office should be off-limits.  

    •  Way out of line (7+ / 0-)

      I don't care what this guy did, this post is beyond the bounds.

      I don't accept this kind of behavior from wingnuts on either side.  It's uncivilized.

      I don't care if he has put himself in the public eye, you don't go throwing people's home addresses and private info up on the web.  This guy probably has a family and kids.

      •  Medical records on line (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        judyneric

        is how McCain said he would lower medical costs. My take is since privacy is of no issue to these nutz and according to Obama on his votes too, post it all until this reverses course. Second.

        Alaska roots? AIP perhaps? Looks and sounds like a Todd Palin chum. Warning...if you want to be stupid enough to be a ruse for any party, "burn baby burn". Question to Joe...ever vote for a Democrat in your life? The guy is a chump...and given I work in his proximat field and also have a college degree, I would rip his ass for giving his entire industry a black eye. We don't lie. Some of us have jobs where people's lives are on the line for cutting corners and lying...I would not trust his work, nor his integrity that he needs to do his work.

      •  Ouch. (0+ / 0-)

        come on, i don't know about uncivilized....   but i did ask for the original comment to be troll rated to invisibility.

        there are two sides to the argument over whether that much info should have been posted.

        frankly, i agree with both sides.

        You go to war not with the reasons you have, but with the reasons you might want or wish to have. - The Republican Credo

        by judyneric on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 09:59:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Sex unknown? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      judyneric

      Alaska connection; Arizona connection. Keating Ave. Hmmm.

      McCain/Palin: When two negatives DON'T make a positve.

      by forever blue on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:34:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So a Republican took out a FHA mortgage (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Vicky, judyneric, chigh, Four of Nine, lgcap

      and he's using that subprime mortgagee Countrywide.  Tsk, tsk... and Joe's dad, Richard, lives in Key Largo -- where the average house price is $700,000. So, if Pops is so well-off, why is his offspring turning to subprime mortgagees and the government in order to buy a house?  Isn't that kind of "socialist?"

      Joe might not be able to buy that plumbing business.  I heard yesterday that credit limits are being seriously lowered or denied to people who have mortgages with Countrywide.

      Countrywide has now been labeled a deadbeat and if you have been associated with them, then the creditors are applying that label to you too.

      <div style="color: #a00000;"> Our... constitutional heritage rebels at the thought of giving government the power to control men's minds. Thurgood Marshal

      by bronte17 on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 08:35:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  hahahahahahahaha (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Vicky

      That's AWESOME...that you found all that out! Sucks to be "Plumber Joe" and his new found "celebrity" ...maybe he has some outstanding peternity tets or child support that people can track him down for....

      This is great!

      •  schaudenfreude (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Vicky, alkalinesky

        is fun but ugly.

        "Conservatism is everyone you never wanted to grow up to be." -Paul Waldman

        by Kaity on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 09:06:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  He didn't ask for this (0+ / 0-)

        Obama showed up one day in his yard and he asked Obama a question.  Obama gave an answer that was, let's say, insightful.  If McCain showed up on your doorstep and asked a question of you, and McCain's answer was, let's say, insightful, and all of a sudden, you were being attacked across the internet for asking a question...what would your take be?

        Or better yet, let's stop with the hypotheticals and ask a real question.  When Graeme Frost gave the Democrat's weekly response to Bush's address in 2007 regarding SCHIP, people like Michelle Malkin and Rush Limbaugh dug into the personal (but public) information of his family.  Did you think that was fair?  Did you think that was "AWESOME"?  Or did you think that was below the belt?  Because I can point out one thing-Graeme Frost and his family did a lot more to push themselves into the public eye than this guy.  He gave a political speech.  This guy asked a question in his own yard.  And yet, when the far right found out that family's information, they were excoriated (rightly so).

        So, my question is, do you agree with this kind of action and activity at all times, or only when it helps you?

        Conservative since 1992. Open-minded since birth.

        by ShowMe on Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 02:30:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  out of line (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      judyneric, alkalinesky, Nada Lemming

      good info, but i have to vote to hide on this one.

      you should have summarized the salient info here, instead of posting all the details.  something like, "i looked samuel joseph wurzelbacher up on blahblah.com, found him in holland, OH. he's previously live in north pole, AK and on keating avenue in mesa, AZ. he has an unpaid hospital bill and state taxes from 2007...(etc.)"

      we don't out people, or enable harassment of individuals here, even if they are wingnut stooges.

      l'audace! l'audace! toujours l'audace!

      by zeke L on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 09:21:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's called JOURNALISM (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Vicky, judyneric

        A casual look at a newspaper story of any repute would be just as inquisitive, indeed, this information speaks to authenticity.  I'm obviously in the minority here, but given the choice, I'll choose more information over less, every time around.

        •  no, it's not (0+ / 0-)

          do the reporters in your town post not just names, but home addresses, partial SS#'s and tax liens on everyone they mention in a story?

          not where i live.

          l'audace! l'audace! toujours l'audace!

          by zeke L on Thu Oct 16, 2008 at 10:12:49 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Perhaps (0+ / 0-)

            some of that information is withheld in the context of how the story is constructed and presented to the public.  Make no mistake however that information is very much a part of the report and is archived accordingly for future reference.  It's demanded by the editor and is typically available upon request.

            News organizations that have established records of reliably honest reporting have their good name to rely on.  Otherwise anonymous posters, sadly, do not have that luxury.  There wasn't anything posted that's non-factual. I don't see a problem.

    •  GOP tactics? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      alkalinesky

      This would be something out of a GOP playbook.  No need for that.

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