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View Diary: Cheney Illegally Eavesdropped on White House Policy Rivals (71 comments)

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  •  Define "policy rival". If you can. (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ducktape, corwin, Rogneid, Unduna, Leftcandid, Olon

    Are we talking about government employees stationed overseas who disagreed with the White House on various policies?

    •  The article doesn't define it. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ducktape, Rogneid, Unduna, Olon

      It's a brief article, and that's the only mention of "policy rivals".

    •  You can pretty much bet (11+ / 0-)

      He's doing the same thing with democrats. Cheney is power mad and we will all be much better off when he's gone. Obama needs to make sure the security is air tight when he gets sworn in.

      Do Pavlov's dogs chase Schroedinger's cat?

      by corwin on Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 07:27:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I have no doubt he spied on Kerry. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Joe Willy, corwin, Rogneid, Olon

        He had the ability, and seemingly the lack of scruples to do it.

        You should be ashamed! Stop blogging. Stop blogging right now! - Ivy Frye, assistant to Gov. Palin

        by burrow owl on Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 07:32:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Obama is going to have to make sure that (4+ / 0-)

        his administration roots out the shadow operation the Bush Administration will leave behind that I have no doubt we'll find if only someone looks for it.

        He is also going to have to really look closely at government employees at Monica Goodling's previous level - the Bush Administration went deeper into the agencies and installing wingnuts than any administration that I know of.  What to do with them will be the question.  Government employees are hard to get rid of.  Hopefully, these sleepers will carry out their mission of undermining a Democratic Administration, be caught quickly and we can get on with actually producing positive results for the American people.

        •  If Congress is serious (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corwin

          about taking back the government, it can change the personnel laws.  The protections for government civil servants are statutory, not constitutional.

          I'd love to see Congress change the law so that anyone who got a career position under the Bush Administration would see their position reopened for hiring.  They can apply again, along with anybody else who wants to.  Especially in the DoJ.

        •  Betcha that many of those appointed don't have (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Joe Willy, corwin

          basic qualifications for the job they hold. Even figuring in a large chunk of incompetence due to crony privateer presence , the inept functioning of so many Fed agencies supposedly there to help Us The People kind of serves as a stink to let us know where to look for rotten eggs. Appointed - still a term used , I think , for the act of signing off on hiring an individual after Civil Service selection process completed. If that is the wrong term now , please just pretend I used the right one. An dthose appointed , outside the Civil Service process , can I'm sure be asked to resign easily enough.Removing their desks , telephones, and computers if they fail to comply with that request works. I have watched it happen.

    •  No. (4+ / 0-)

      Wudya think?

      Can it be done, based on just this?

      "In all chaos there is a cosmos, in all disorder, a secret order." Carl Jung

      by Unduna on Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 07:27:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Anything can be done. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Rogneid, Unduna, Olon

        The question is whether or not they are allowed to do it.  

        But I'm trying to figure out what the author of the article defines as a "policy rival".  Is that a person like those who appeared on Nixon's "enemies list"?

        None of this surprises me though.  If we do NOT find volumes of documents and digital av files chronicling every Democrat on the Hill, I'll be surprised.  Of course, I had a front row seat as the Watergate saga unfolded and too many people including Cheney in the Bush Administration were either participants or desciples of that era.  The only thing they thought Nixon did wrong was to get caught.

        •  NSA for purely internal, Hill use? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          inclusiveheart

          That has to be helpful to our legal pursuits, doesn't it...?

          "In all chaos there is a cosmos, in all disorder, a secret order." Carl Jung

          by Unduna on Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 07:37:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, Maddow had a whistle blower from (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Unduna, Abra Crabcakeya

            the signal intelligence corps on last night who certainly seemed to suggest that all the old rules were sent flying out the window.  She said she was ordered to listen to Americans overseas talking about family stuff and a whole lot of other private irrelevant stuff - she added that it was a waste of time - which should be obvious to anyone with a brain.

            •  Something was swirling around about that (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              inclusiveheart, Abra Crabcakeya

              last week or so. Maybe a couple of weeks ago. Glad we're on it.

              But what are the chances that a Dem controlled legislative and executive will prosecute these guys?  I don't have much hope for that, and it makes very, very angry. We need to at least expose every move and publicly air every criminal act, whether we prosecute or not. The country needs and deserves that ( I need and deserve it, fcs). I'm worried that our guys are going to ignore it, "let it go". It'll likely bring me unglued.

              Btw, it's nice to see you about.

              "In all chaos there is a cosmos, in all disorder, a secret order." Carl Jung

              by Unduna on Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 07:47:48 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Nice to see you too. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Unduna, Sociowriter

                I was cranky with my Dad because they walked away from so many people after Watergate.  I just don't think that the people on the Hill in our party have the vision to understand that the Bush Administration was effectively made possible by the Congress' decision to walk away in 1974 and they don't have the courage of conviction to risk their careers on going after the Bushies.  

                Two things that were extremely distressing happened in the wake of Watergate.  The Democrats decided they should make nice and then within the Democratic Party itself there was a revolution that came about in which all of the key leaders of the party who had pursued Nixon were punished for doing so - the man my Dad was working for lost his chairmanship after 30 years.  

                It was ugly and I still don't entirely understand it.  But knowing Congresscritters - ours in particular - they look back and take the lesson about losing power within their ranks more seriously than the one about allowing a criminal cabal to carry on and come back to hurt the American people for a second round.  Depressing really.  I can't say that I won't on some level enjoy finding out that Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have had their private lives thoroughlly investigated by BushCult because they passed the FISA amendments instead of impeaching Bush and Cheney.  You get what you give in life.

                •  And hence our Primaries stance. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  inclusiveheart, Abra Crabcakeya

                  Neither of us is in the mood for kissy-face. Far from.

                  And the reality, as I see it, is that there can be no accountability, fresh or otherwise, without rectification. Without rectification, "accountability" is just a pretty buzzword.

                  There seems to be the sense around these parts that once Barack is in the presidency (knock on wood), our work is done. It makes me want to scream.
                  The fact is, much of the most vital work will have only just begun. We weren't just highjacked and robbed blind, we were infiltrated, and much of that poison is only just starting to course. And it's not just here - the international damage is horrifying, and I'm not just referencing Iraq. Iraq is just a staging ground...

                  And, as usual, the question perennial is: Will We Do What Needs To Be Done.

                  How much harder will it be for me for us to finally have ability, but not choose Justice. I can see how hard it has been on you, and I am sorry.

                  "In all chaos there is a cosmos, in all disorder, a secret order." Carl Jung

                  by Unduna on Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 08:36:19 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I think that these parts will get very quiet (0+ / 0-)

                    after the election if Obama wins.  A lot of people are only here for the Presidential election and many will lose interest quickly once it is concluded.  I think that's probably not a bad thing either. If we are lucky, the site will get back to substantive policy issues because you are absolutely right - there is a ton of work to be done - getting Obama in and strengthening our Congressional caucuses is just a mechanism to make the work possible - the question of whether or not the work is done and how it gets done is a whole other can of worms.

                    All we can do is keep talking, prodding and hope that we can even in some small way make a difference.  

                    •  Yup. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      inclusiveheart

                      I look forward to getting back to substantive issues, myself.

                      Nice to have you out there; sometimes I feel a bit nuts from all of it, and good compatriots really help.

                      "In all chaos there is a cosmos, in all disorder, a secret order." Carl Jung

                      by Unduna on Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 09:22:52 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

      •  Someone knows about the NSA use internally. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Abra Crabcakeya, Olon

        Obviously.
        Seems like something could be done with that, really, it does.

        "In all chaos there is a cosmos, in all disorder, a secret order." Carl Jung

        by Unduna on Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 07:35:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Anyone who does not agree with his every wish.... (7+ / 0-)

      would be seen by Dick Cheney as a rival and a threat to his personal control over the Bush administration.  And his effort was aided by a President who was too damn dumb to really ever grab and hold control over the government, probably in large measure because it did not really interest him all that much.  Not a "detail man" you know, more of a great gasbag full of hot air and stupid jokes.

      In the election in two weeks this country is going to take an amazing change of leadership and style, or else it will elect McCain, who will surround himself with lobbyists, stooges, neo-cons, thugs and bag men who will be working overtime to try to steal the last of America's wealth before it collapses.  And all the while they will be busy wrapping themselves in flags and trumpeting their patriotism and moral purity.  Sheesh, I don't think they are going to get away with it this time, but the prospect scares me enough that I will be working overtime myself to make sure it doesn't.

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