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View Diary: PLEASE RECOMMEND - Get Eminem's kickass Anti-Bush Video OnMTV Now! (257 comments)

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  •  eminem is a genius (4.00)
    well respected by the hip hop community where to be a credible white rapper, you better be twice as good an MC.

    yes yes, i know to politically correct liberals, his homophobia and misogyny are turnoffs. but there is a raw honesty, no bullshit pretense to Eminem. it's why the kids love him. i'm not a huge fan of his content and whiny putdowns of celebs, but the man has skillz. and i'm thrilled he's come out against Bush. if we wanna start winning back some white males, having folks like Eminem on our side is a good start.

    •  raw honesty? (2.60)
      try raw bigotry.  I'm glad he is on our side with Bush and I think its good he has a video (that I can't watch on that site) that bashes Bush.  He is still a prick though.
      •  Like one of Cole's collegues said... (4.00)
        Eminem is a bootlegger, but that does not mean we should reject him outright.

        This is about something more important than previous differences.

      •  no one says (4.00)
        that truman capote is a seriel killer because he wrote In Cold Blood.

        Maybe that's a bad example because that's not fiction... what about Stephen King...?  crazed killer at heart?

        •  huh (none)
          wtf does fiction have to do with the real eminem?  I am not talking about a couple of song lyrics.  And I didn't even suggest that Eminem was some person in a song of his. wtf?  Are people really that offended that I called Eminem a prick?  get real.
          •  call eminem whatever you want (4.00)
            his songs are fiction.

            I have no idea why you think he's a bigot, I assumed it was from his song lyrics.

            I'm not offended a bit by your calling him a prick either.  Do you mind discussing your opinion?

            •  good (none)
              it was the assumption that bugged me.  i was just stating my opinion.  don't care enough to really argue it.
            •  ...um, i agree with seamus (3.50)
              One song with Elton John does not a de-bigoting make.  I can't stand the guy.

              Besides, there are tons of other strong, intelligent, politicized, impassioned, and powerful rap artists out there who have been pushing against this fucked-up administration in their work and their message.

              ...too bad they're all black.

              This video is powerful because it has the potential to reach white kids.  That's remarkable, and incredibly important.  But it doesn't make me respect Mr. Mathers any more.  I'm sorry--one too many (or hundreds too many) faggot jokes, faggot cut-downs, and women-thrown-in-trunks songs for my taste.  

              I'll stick with Chuck D. and Common.

              (I still freeped TRL, regardless).

              •  and Blackalicious (none)
                Gift of Gab.

                I wouldn't go so far as to urge anyone to "respect Mr. Mathers".

              •  "Too bad they're all black"? (4.00)
                Eminem is not popular because he's white, he's popular because his raps are so fucking good. You don't see Bubba Sparxx getting all this attention for his raps about being poor white trash. The only black artist to match Em recently is Jadakiss with "Why". Chuck D is okay on Air America but hasn't had a good rap song in about ten years.
              •  Did you really just say that? (none)
                Tell me you mean, it's too bad there aren't more white artists with the courage and wit that these black artists exhibit.

                Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. --Friedrich Nietzsche (Beyond Good and Evil)

                by perspicio on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:07:40 PM PDT

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        •  well in that case S King (none)
          is probably a woman
      •  Shame on you all (4.00)
        for trollrating seamus.  We don't want unanimity here--that's for Bush rallies.

        I'll chime in.  I have listened to eminem and made a real effort to understand what he was about when he skyrocketed to fame.  I like some rap, although I'm a 36-year-old white guy with a family, so not a TRL target.

        Eminem is clearly talented, but socially immature to say the least.  Prick is the perfect word for him.

        Having said that, this video is the bomb.  The song's ok, not his best, but combined with the video it is pure dynamite for our side.  Get it out there however we can.

        Go ahead and troll rate me.  Or you could think for a moment and tell me how he's not a prick instead.  Your choice.

        •  As someone turning 35 in a couple weeks (4.00)
          I noticed Eminem's talent from the start, but was turned off by his immature rants about his mother, his wife, his children, gay people, and so on.

          But as time goes on, I think he's maturing, and this is just another sign of that. He's increasingly tackling relevant social issues, and not just in this video. I haven't listened to all his music so it's possible the homophobia and misogyny and self-loathing is still there, but I get a sense it's on the backburner to a certain degree even if it's there.

          Also, like a lot of young American white guys, he's got a lot of internalized anger and prejudice to deal with, and even in his early work he's remarkable by the fact that he deals with it, publicly, in his music. Would he be as good an artist if he ignored his darker thoughts and just talked about what people wanted to hear?

          Eminem seems to be evolving by his confrontation of these issues, exactly the ones that offend his critics. He's a role model whether he or his critics like it or not. If he could go through a process of brutal and public self-examination and come out the other side a better man, he could provide an example to other people with similar attitudes to confront them themselves.

          A couple of years ago, if he would have done a video like this at all (and he did do at least one video critical of Bush) it would have suggested some immature and destructive course of action. But this video ends with a plea to channel action into voting. That's maturity, and he should be judged by his journey and where he is now, and not where he was five years ago. Given what I see, I can't call him a prick.

    •  It's your speech: own it (3.66)
      Eminem has made bigoted comments about women and gays. Period.

      I am sure southern white racists were also cool and relevant in their communities when they beat and burned black people, but that didn't make them right.

      Don't blame political correctness for your apologist view of bigoted speech.

      You are the one who views gay bashing and women bashing as merely politically correct jibberjabber.

      It's your view. Own it. Don't blame it on someone else.

      •  The video stands (4.00)
        And I see no homophobia, racism or sexism there.

        I have never liked rap, and Eminem in particular turned me so far off that I would get irritated hearing the bass from my neighbor's apartment.

        But what I saw here cut through all bullshit, all prior crap, all of that. It was powerful. Nuanced. I saw strong women, people uniting, a powerful anti-racism message and a HELL of a call to power.

        Will I go out and become an Eminem fan and fawn all over his prior stuff? Nope.

        But this stands. It is outstanding on every level.

        Sometimes the messenger comes crawling and covered with pox, and the message is still good.

        Sometimes the message comes from an unlikely source and is still valid.

        Do not fall into the ad hominem trap and discard this work of art simply because you do not like the artist.

        My respect for Eminem climbed measurably with this.

        I am a feminist, a staunch advocate for gay rights, and a mother of a kid who's just getting to the age where this genre of music tends to become appealing.

        This is not about "winning back white males". It's not about political correctness. It's about survival, and the video brings it home.

        George Bush is Nehemiah Scudder

        by jenrose on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 04:56:39 AM PDT

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    •  wtf? (4.00)
      homophobia and misogyny don't turn me off because I'm a politically correct liberal. They turn me off because they suck.

      Don't be a jerk.

      Eminem is a work in progress. Just like all of us. He's growing, changing, getting righteous, letting go of all that stupid crap. You are right, he is a bloody genius. But homophobia still sucks, and so does your dumb-ass jibe at people who don't like it.

      •  work in progress (4.00)
        that's what all of us are. i struggle every day with class, race, gender, sexual orientation prejudices, despite my nice ivy league degrees and my work for progressive causes. Feminists would rather denounce Eminem instead of examining the very real, raw feelings that lead to his rage against women. his mom was a coked up nutcase from what i gather. Kim seems to have a few screws loose too. i forced myself to listen to the song "Kim" even though it terrified me at times--but the pain, the anger, was so raw and real that i was compelled to listen to it and try to understand why Eminem had these feelings of rage towards women. that's how we attack misogyny. we shouldn't just say, "eminem sucks and hates women and he's a prick. don't listen to him." i think we have to engage those emotions, esp. the very deep-seated homophobia in the hip hop community. overcoming oppression is "hard work" to quote our President. that's why i find Eminem's work so provocative and interesting. My fave MC of all time, Tupac, was not without his contradictions towards women and gays. certain liberals would just like to denounce all hip hop and not bother listening to it.
        •  The music business (4.00)
          It has a certain package of rebellion it wants to sell.  And when the music business wants something, there are always people elbowing each other to give it to them.

          Hip-hop isn't my subculture, but punk has been for many years now.  The rules with regard to what the industry wants from each are similar, paerallel if not identical.  It wants posture, not substance in its rebellion.  They want acts that will be "bad" but threaten nothing of the status quo, hopefully reinforcement.  And the stardom dream is enough for many to give them exactly what they want, which they'll take, as long as they make a buck of them, and then spit them back out hollow husks.  It's why DIY is so important, it's the only way to avoid the meatgrinder.

          The industry wants lots of shouting about hos and fags, such "bad" boys, oh look, they're showing off their abs.  It sure beats getting confronted with stuff like--and here I'll show you just how old I am--Don't push me cause I'm close to the edge I'm just trying not to lose my head It's like a jungle sometimes it makes me wonder how I keep from going under.   Later I liked Digable Planets and Arrested Development, but the industry defines the sound and the market for the public, not vice versa, consumers are taught to demand what the industry wants them to demand.  Snoop, now there's a model the industry can get behind.  Like from my world they want Blink-182 right?  Sometimes accidents happen, a Public Enemy breaks through, and they have to spend 5 years upping the intensity of the faux-rebellion to distract the market from the real thing.

          </anti-corpotainmentcomplex rant>  

          •  Maybe I'm showing my age, too (4.00)
            Very, very well said! Or typed, for the sticklers.

            My Dad LOVED "The Message" when I was growing up...and now I understand why.  I liked the beat then; we live the lyrics now.  Good music/lyrics/skills just speak to you, which is why I'm blown away by Eminem's work here.  

            BTW, I checked out of rap when Digable Planets was traded for 40s and blunts and b------.  

            I think, therefore I'm damned.

            by AuntiePeachy on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 07:21:38 AM PDT

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            •  digable planets (none)
              were da bomb. loved them. there is still a lot of good hip hop out there. it may not be on BET or MTV, but it exists (Blackilicious, Pharcyde, Common, Mos Def, Jean Grae, Ugly Duckling, Del Tron, Mr Lif etc etc). Even a statement like Jesus Walks by Kanye West is inspiring. glad that's gotten a lot of airplay.
              •  Why, oh why, do the (none)
                ...positive, and dare I say "conscious" acts get almost no airplay?  Makes me crazy!

                I just LOVE Mos Def as an actor/poet, but I've never experienced his music.  In fact, to further show my age, of the acts you listed, I only know of Pharcyde/Common/Mos Def/Kanye West (he almost doesn't count b/c he's everywhere these days).  I can't deal with the Hip Hop/R&B stations, because every other song just features some ignorant, DMX-biting grunts over a beat.  

                So my (I should say "our" since the hubby and I share part of the communte) radio listening consists of NPR & the Tom Joyner Morning Show.  But our music collection is quite varied: Anita Baker CDs, O Brother, Where Art Thou soundtrack CD; Sade on DVD and Rage Against the Machine DVD.  If we hear good music, insightful lyrics and are moved, then we purchase.

                I'm genuinely moved by Eminem's work here.  That said, it's going to take a bit more for me to support him financially.  He functions and is marketed as if the Elvis of Hip Hop, and I have issues with that. Though I'd suspect that he dislikes some--maybe even many--aspects of this, he's still a willing actor.  But there's no denying his work in this instance.

                I think, therefore I'm damned.

                by AuntiePeachy on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 01:14:00 PM PDT

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              •  thanks for the suggestions (none)
                I'll check it out.  I'm familiar with some of the names (Mos Def, Pharcyde) but haven't really checked any of it out, I'll give them a listen.
        •  asdf (none)
          Feminists would rather denounce Eminem instead of examining the very real, raw feelings that lead to his rage against women. his mom was a coked up nutcase from what i gather. Kim seems to have a few screws loose too.

          If you had an abusive husband, that's what he'd say as well - I beat you because I had a bad childhood, because I work all day at a shitty job, because you're crazy, because my ex-girlfriend was an addict and I'm still stressed from it, etc., etc...

          They love throwing the blame onto other people and pretending that they are really the victim. They want your sympathy and understanding but it doesn't make them take responsibility for their actions.

    •  he's n ot homophobic, it's satire NM (none)
      NM
    •  "Genius" is a bit much (none)
      He's certainly talented, but I personally can't stand the guy because of the mysogeny and homophobia you already noted.  His music doesn't do anything for me either, but I don't like rap to begin with.

      "Revolutionary debris litters the floor of Wall Street." -Kurt Cobain, Diaries

      by Subterranean on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 01:15:48 AM PDT

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    •  Thats why (none)
      People need to tap that genius and somehow get Eminem involved.  He could write speeches or do a lot of stuff for the party if the party were to reach out to him.

      Rageaholics are unfit for command. Rage as an addiction

      by Lucian on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 03:08:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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