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View Diary: PLEASE RECOMMEND - Get Eminem's kickass Anti-Bush Video OnMTV Now! (257 comments)

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  •  nononono! (none)
    There is a HYOOOOOOOOOOGE difference between usage of the n-word by black artists and usages of "faggot" by straight people.  

    I accept that it's immature.

    It's still fucking hate speech.  In fact, it's immature fucking hate speech.  

    I, for one, don't feel a ton better knowing that he's "just" using faggot as an insult.  

    •  agreed (none)
      as I said, that's still part of homophobia, but not quite what he's accused of.

      Your point wins on merit however.

      •  And to his credit... (none)
        I do agree w/ posts below:  

        he's certainly not the first musician (hiphop or otherwise) to deal in homophobia and misogyny in order to establish credibility.  

        I'm still all for calling a bucket a bucket.  I don't like hearing  "faggot" shot around as if it were no more inconsequential than "jerk" or "asshole."  

    •  Riddle me this... (none)
      spoooky, have you ever shut your hand in the door and exclaimed "cock sucker" or called someone a "mother fucker"? If exclaimed cock sucker are you being derogatory to everyone who has ever done that, male and female? Or if you call someone a mother fucker, are you degrading your dad?

      What I'm trying to get at is that everything that one says does not have to be, and in many cases should not be, taken literally.

      •  literal does not equal derrogatory (none)
        this is important.

        "faggot" is bad even IF it's not actually a "faggot" you're talking to. you get that?

        (that said, I believe that among people you trust who won't misjudge your meaning, like when it's just me the fag hagh and my brown homo friends, you can get past language as maker of meaning and camp-ify it.Maybe Em is just so cocky he trusts everybody not to misjudge him... or doesn't care if they do.)

        "Write something, even if it's just a suicide note." Gore Vidal.

        by Drunky Brewster on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 08:55:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  'zactly: (none)
          Doesn't care if they do.

          Part of the culture is the use of strong language.  Finding your buttons and pushing 'em.  It may seem like hate, but it's like in the military: they make you face your weaknesses, your vulnerabilities.  For your own good.  At least, that's the principle.

          One thing I appreciate about it is it desensitizes you to labels, allowing deeper meanings to emerge (when they are present).  So much of the point of this type of music is to emphasize the stereotypes so loudly that they lose their meanings.  They actually come to represent their own narrowness.

          Check out Youngblood Brass Band.  One favorite song: Peace.  It's largely restrained, but not without barbs.  Plus, the brass band is, itself, quite good.

          Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. --Friedrich Nietzsche (Beyond Good and Evil)

          by perspicio on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:19:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  strong language (none)
            when American soldiers in Vietnam used the word 'gook' over and over and over, I don't think it helped them face their weaknesses. Since it dehumanized the enemy, maybe it helped them fight and stay alive. But outside of a battle zone...
            •  Point taken. (none)
              However, to my knowledge the strong language in this case has not been used to describe the group to whom it is usually applied.  Again, its an example of using stereotypes to push buttons rather than to perpetuate the stereotype.  Like blacks (and others) using the term "nigger" out of its "suthun'-racist" context.  It separates the word from its familiar context, and effectively helps to devalue the stereotype by robbing it of some of its impact.

              Words are often confused with meanings.  And PC is born.

              "It's just all in your mind, what you interpret it as
              I say to fight you take it as I'm gonna whip someone's ass
              If you don't understand don't even bother to ask..."

              Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. --Friedrich Nietzsche (Beyond Good and Evil)

              by perspicio on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 12:22:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Gotta disagree (none)
          I would have to respectfully disagree...I don't think that any word is automatically derogatory in any context it happens to be used. Now I'm not a linguist, and I am not old enough to know myself, however my mother always used to tell me that when she was a child nobody said fuck, ever. It was just a word that registered with such magnitude with people that nobody used it. Now however it has been stripped of most of it's sexual connotation and is being used as an exclamation point (I let it slip ocaisionally in front of my boss and I do Microbiology research...).

          For the most part faggot or fag or queer has morphed in much the same way. The word is a curse word because it used to be the harshest thing to say to someone who was gay. Now however it has that meaning but people in my generation and younger use it instead of asshole, that word has lost much of its punch. I'm not saying it can't be used as a dreogatory remark, and I'm not saying that Eminem hasn't used it as such, however from what I'm getting some here think it's derogatory, period, no discussion. I would have to disagree.

      •  It's a good point... (4.00)
        but I am a cocksucker.  As such, I think it's kind of a super thing to be, and don't personally feel its weight as an insult.  Perspective thing.  I know there are tons of queerboys who still use cocksucker to mean jerk.  I think it's kind of like using "gay" to say "dumb," personally.

        On the other hand, I toss around "Jesus Christ" like crazy but mean no ill will or disrespect towards Christians or their faith.  Offensive language is effective at airing strong negative emotions.

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