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View Diary: Feminisms: 2008 Election Edition (45 comments)

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  •  But that's what people like me are for. (2+ / 0-)
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    Elise, jessical

    To help you, in any way I can, since I didn't have to experience that loss.  That's what friends are for, right, to help us and protect us when we're hurt?

    •  Yeah... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tryptamine, Elise

      ...but I remember wishing they hadn't put it up, back then.  It was traumatic in very much the way Prop 8 has been.  It took another decade to get pretty much the same thing through legislative agency.

      Depending on who you talk to, it was either the beginning of the effort that led to the law being passed by the legislature 12 years later, or a rout that destroyed gay leadership in Washington state for half a generation.  It is possible, I think (knowing a very few of the players) that both are true.  A lot of people felt -- beyond the kindness of their friends -- that the defeat of I 677 was a gross repudiation of their humanity.  There was even a film done on the subject (though I haven't seen it).  I remember huddling in a MSoft office with my queer colleagues, going "holy fuck" over and over again...

      ...j'ai découvert que tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos dans une chambre.

      by jessical on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 08:29:25 PM PST

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      •  I don't remember that initiative (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jessical

        so I can't speak to it exactly.  But I do think that the trick is to make the language as broad as possible.  Like the Arkansas measure, which didn't go directly for gays and lesbians but was primarily aimed at them.  Or the Colorado "personhood" amendment that (thank god) didn't pass.  

        For instance, I think the way that Schroer won her case is a good place to start.  It established that she wasn't asking for a "special" right but a basic right that should be afforded to all people.  And how do you argue against that, without sounding like a complete jerk?

        •  Heh... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tryptamine

          ...I'm old.  It was like, 97 I think.

          ...the problem with Schroer (happy as it made me) is that she won in part for being "culturally" female, or so I recall the opinion.  If she'd been visibly gender nonconforming, the precedent would have indicated a loss.

          I677 was peculiar.  If there was any takeaway for pro-civil rights amendments, for me, it would be that they really take this enormous amount of love and energy in the community, from a finite set of resources, so if they don't fly, it can leave things kind of messy in a way that just losing doesn't.  

          The idea of a general civil rights initiative with broad language is very appealing though.  

          I will check this thread back tomorrow later...gotta crash.  Really good to say hi!! Very.

          ...j'ai découvert que tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos dans une chambre.

          by jessical on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 11:02:45 PM PST

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          •  That's not old! (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jessical

            I should remember it, then, since I was 17.  But I was paying more attention to my peers at the time than politics.

            Really?  I never read the opinion (doubt that I would understand it if I did) but from the press releases I read, it seemed to be saying that people could not be punished by their employers for not fitting into our preconceived notions of what a man or a woman should look like.  Which seems like it would include gender non-conformists too?  Hmm, I will have to go look more closely at that.

            Good to see you too. :)

            •  Yeah... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tryptamine

              ...it specifically referenced cultural transition.  Which is not to say passing.  In other words -- as I understood it -- you can not look like anyone's idea of a girl, exactly, if you are presenting in target gender in a culturally appropriate way.  

              ...j'ai découvert que tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos dans une chambre.

              by jessical on Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 07:51:48 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

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