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View Diary: Goodbye to DKOS (293 comments)

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  •  The same point Obama Made, if you read (10+ / 0-)

    That there are some in the democratic party that misread America by engaging in the same partison rhetoric that the neoconservatives have - giving tit for tat - just like many of the commenters are doing here - trying to scare immediate points, but not honoring the bigger issue of inclusion and reconciliation among people who have the capacity to agree with each other and create something much bigger and more beautiful than we ever have before.

    That point, if you can possibly understand it.  I pray every day that enough people in America actually HEAR what Obama is saying here.

    •  I'd like to be in charge of my own mind, thanks (6+ / 0-)

      You apologists who always say "you people claim to support Obama but never actually listen" sound a lot like those Christian evangelicals who want to impose their version of God and Christianity on the rest of us.

      I feel sorry for you that you have the arrogance to imply that only your belief in our common ideal is valid.

      I know, it's probably not what you want to hear. oD

      by obligatorydiscord on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 07:26:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  excuse me (8+ / 0-)

      i was politically involved before obama got his first stingray, and do not look to politicians for my philosophical beliefs...if you need a political candidate to tell you how to think, well that's ok

      james jamerson: genius!

      by memofromturner on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 07:34:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  If I understand you correctly, Obama is (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      4democracy, SnowItch

      not a follower of Hegelian philosophy. If so, then I've learned something. Thanks. I guess I really do need to read up on Niebuhr.

      As for inclusion and reconciliation among people, good luck with that. Easy enough if those people have a capacity to agree. But the singularly more perfected union we have today was in no small way born of the Lincoln years, and this came at the cost in blood of hundreds of thousands. It's me who suspects the resulting increase in perfection might not otherwise have come in a thousand years. Lincoln had no plan to end slavery...in fact almost no one in America was countenancing such a radical idea.

      I begin to perceive an element of naïveté in Obama that existed in Lincoln. But I'm perfectly fine with that. We'll all learn more soon enough.

      •  "Yes WE can" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        peggy

        If that's not a collectivist ideal, I don't know what is.  Like Lincoln, Obama is presiding over a time of division and strife that requires a sense of "becoming", as Hegel would put it - or of necessary CHANGE in response to new information. (not just the static notion of "being" that Aristotle purported.)

        I'm only a wanker when it comes to being a student of philosophy, but probably a lot more passionate when it comes to being a participant in productive discourse in a democracy.  And I wholeheartedly believe that the notions of inclusion and reconciliation or now as prescient as ever.

        If I have suggested that Obama's message honors anything but these concepts of a rational and empirical pathway to change through collective consciousness, I have communicated opposite of my intent.  This is the very idea I am defending in my comments today.

        •  Well, I suppose one man's collectivist ideal is (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          4democracy, SnowItch

          another man's fight for Unionism.

          Obama is, up to this point in time, more fortunate than Lincoln, because the current crisis is less sectional, the alternative in the form of the candidacy of McCain/Palin was easily shown as grossly incompetent and therefore dangerous, and lastly, hopefully, and apparently, the country is more mature today.

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