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View Diary: What's the matter with Israel? (209 comments)

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  •  as long as palestinians fire rockets (3+ / 0-)

    at Israeli children, Israel has the right to respond as any other country in the world would respond if people fired rockets at its children: with ultimate force, short of nuclear weapons. So yes, you are correct.

    •  its a fair point (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      heineken1717, kyril, cybrestrike, Yasuragi

      fair point, and firing rockets at children is despicable. however, lets not forget they live in a prison system with checkpoints, so if you and i were treated like they were, we would react differently too. its important for you to examine the other side also, as most of us here have done. both are at fault, but you make it seem like its the palestinians fault and the israelis are harmless.

    •  Maybe you should consider looking deeper into (0+ / 0-)
    •  What rockets? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      weasel, Shliapnikov, kyril

      What are you talking about? What rockets? When was an Israeli child hit by a Palestinian rocket?

      Lots of dead Palestinian children though...

    •  You mean those unguided rockets... (5+ / 0-)

      that the weld together in a back room?  Is it even fair to say those are being fired at anyone in particular?  It seems to me they are more or less just being fired with more or less random results.  

      I really do not understand why so many people take the knee jerk reaction of siding with Israel on anything.  Actually, I can't help but think it comes down to racism.  

      Both sides have extremists who target civilians, children and whatever else.  It's hard for me to see that either side is in the right.  But that doesn't mean Israel gets a free pass because "both sides are wrong".  

      Don't like XOM and OPEC? What have YOU done to reduce your oil consumption? Hot air does NOT constitute a renewable resource!

      by Asak on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 02:30:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree. Am a secular Jew who has never been (4+ / 0-)

        in any way at ease about Israel (and the way the borders were drawn in '48).  And I certainly despise the way they have marginalized and confined the Palestinian people, and then frame them as terrorists when they respond to this outrage.

        I'm glad to see it discussed here.

        Every year at our (secular) Passover celebration, when we reached the point where we remember those who are not yet free, I always mentioned the Palestinians, to the contempt and shock of my relatives.  It's been very satisfying over the years to see how, one by one, they've come around to my point of view, recognizing the virtual slave status that has been imposed on them.

        I saw the Berlin Wall fall, and I saw Mandela walk free; I saw a dream whose time has come... -- Johnny Clegg

        by Yasuragi on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 08:02:59 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  went to a wedding at Christian church (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          golconda2, Yasuragi

          At a certain point a prayer leader was reciting prayers that the congregation was supposed to repeat.  The leader said, "God bless our troops who are fighting for our freedom."  I responded, "God forgive us."  Loud.

          Nobody was even a little bit phased.  

          'course, the whole service was kinda like sleep-walking -- words were said and songs were sung, but nobody seemed to have any sense of meaning of anything. as If people had to remain numbed to reality, remain brain-dead lest their beliefs be challenged and they be plunged into a cognitive dissonance that would completely paralyse them. Very sad, in all.  

          ooops -- this veered off topic...

          •  Yeah, but a really worthy story. I like your (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Wolters Kluwer Icon

            line: I may steal it the next time I find myself in a church discussing "our troops" that way.  I just want them home, already.

            I saw the Berlin Wall fall, and I saw Mandela walk free; I saw a dream whose time has come... -- Johnny Clegg

            by Yasuragi on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 10:58:24 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  One side has *far* more blood on its (3+ / 0-)

        hands than the other. That happens to be the side that is systematically colonising and annexing the other's land, and it happens to be the side whose crimes we have facilitated for decades. It's clear, in other words, where any principled European or American citizen would focus his/her criticism.

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