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View Diary: Brief Notes On The Baucus White Paper About Health Reform (227 comments)

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  •  I don't know what nation has that kind of system. (0+ / 0-)

    In the uk the wait for even the most mundane appointments is often very lengthy.

    •  Those horror stories are greatly (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ferg, beltane

      exaggerated.  I was in the UK and never had to wait.  

      I know there are waits for "elective" surgeries in some countries, but honestly it is not going to apply to everyone every time.  And personally, if I had to choose between waiting and pay at cost for my health care, and paying 5-6x the cost like we do now, I'm choosing the former.

      Save the parrots: Drink shade-grown coffee!

      by oscarsmom on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:00:47 PM PST

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      •  my brother had to wait 2 years for knee surgery (0+ / 0-)

        my other brother who suffers from diabetis with all its concurrent medical problems is in and out of the hospital every few months. In the past six months he almost died wtwice, oce when admitted at night the doctor never bothered to check that he was allergic to penicillin.  he almost died.

        Everyone has their stories, many of them are pretty tall.  

        •  I guess the bottom line is that (0+ / 0-)

          horror stories occur within both systems (we have plenty of our own, after all--see "Sicko") so shouldn't be used as a reason to nix a badly needed change in our system.

          Save the parrots: Drink shade-grown coffee!

          by oscarsmom on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:50:01 PM PST

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          •  I am an avid supporter of single payer (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            oscarsmom

            over the dreadful mess that exists now. I advocate a more efficiently run system based on the principles medicare is run.  The true horror for senior's like me is the knowledge that one single 'event' can totally wipe you out leaving you to be warehoused in your last years in nursing homes run like the Snake Pit.

            One thing i am going to agitate strongly for is more in-home assistance for the elderly to allow them to stay longer living independently. That is one element of the UK system that works as well as anything.  True, some cranky old people (like me) don't like different social workers coming 4 times a day and don't have the room to have a livein person, but anything is better than the current old age homes!.

            The transference will be bound to be rocky but health insurance is eating the middle class middle aged alive and making American manufacturing much less competitive in the global marketplace.  So, my guess is that it will economics that actually drives America to start working toward a universal system that is fairer with subsidies for those who can't afford the insurance.

          •  being part of the system (0+ / 0-)

            i can say without dobt we have more horror stories here

            American dream is a myth!

            by brown american on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 06:57:20 PM PST

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        •  that has nothing to do with single payer medicine (0+ / 0-)

          American dream is a myth!

          by brown american on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 06:56:20 PM PST

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    •  We have it here. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      stitchmd, beltane, Losty, Susan from 29

      Military servicemembers have single payer, universal health care.  It was fantastic, and I miss that access to high quality care on demand...

      No politician ever lost an election by underestimating the intelligence of the American public. PT Barnum, paraphrased...

      by jarhead5536 on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:03:45 PM PST

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      •  I am on Medicare and consider it an very well run (0+ / 0-)

        program. It would benefit enormously by electronic record keeping which i have read would save billions.

        •  Electronic Medical Records are a NIGHTMARE (0+ / 0-)

          at least the system that our office has implemented are. The upfront costs are huge, the inefficiencies have been unbelievable, the stress it's placed on the office is tremendous.

          Sounds good in theory, but like many things, in practice it can be something else.

          Diversity may be the hardest thing for a society to live with, and perhaps the most dangerous thing for a society to be without - WSCoffin

          by stitchmd on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 03:36:53 PM PST

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          •  OK so what's the solution to cutting down (0+ / 0-)

            administrative costs?  My dermatologist office says it has helped them enormously, so I don't know.  

            •  I've had lots of conversations about this (0+ / 0-)

              for specialists, it can be helpful for the majority of patients. Specialists typically deal with a more restricted type of case mix, so having a quick "click it" menu can work for those patients who fall under specified diagnoses.

              I've even talked to the pediatricians who use the system we do. About 50% of pediatric care is well-child care, so it's fairly cookbook - graph weight and height here, order immunizations there, print up some parent educational materials. About 50% or more of the rest is also fairly cookbook - ear aches, sore throats, GI disturbances. This is the kind of thing that's well accomodated by EMRs.

              And I'll say that after I saw two young, healthy patients for physicals yesterday, and went down the "checklist," it was perhaps somewhat quicker.

              What computers don't do well is deal with complexity, and when you're talking about a geriatric internal medicine patient with multiple medical problems, where you are trying to get a sense of how all those problems integrate, believe me, computers are far, far more of a hindrance than a help. Add to that that our office is participating in a Medicare pilot project to get "data," and you wind up spending more time trying to collect that data from the records than you do actually working with the patient, and it's an impediment to true patient care.

              Look, I'm not computer illiterate. The fact that I'm here should speak at least in part to that. But we've been doing this for 9 months now, and I'm finding more and more limitations, not fewer. I spend more time on "how" I'm doing than on "what" I'm doing. I haven't seen it help to reduce errors. It adds time to simple orders.

              I could go on and on and on.

              Costs, however, were much lower when docs weren't always being second guessed, but that was well before my time.

              Diversity may be the hardest thing for a society to live with, and perhaps the most dangerous thing for a society to be without - WSCoffin

              by stitchmd on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 04:41:32 PM PST

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          •  they work very well for the VA, apparently NT (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            stitchmd
          •  I worked in the VA system for 2 years (0+ / 0-)

            They can show you how to take a good electronic system and make it the worst

            American dream is a myth!

            by brown american on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 06:58:31 PM PST

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    •  do you know this for a fact (0+ / 0-)

      supported by actual facts or are you buying into the popular folklore?
      Being a physician I do have a different take on it

      American dream is a myth!

      by brown american on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 06:55:29 PM PST

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