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View Diary: I cancelled my Marriott reservation today over Prop 8 -- Boycott Marriott! (324 comments)

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  •  Thanks for the concern... (6+ / 0-)

    You are free to take your seat at the back of the bus...I, however, will not!

    •  Framing 8 as a civil-rights issue was a failure. (0+ / 0-)

      It did not move voters whose opposition was crucial. Success will hinge in part on a better appeal.

      As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

      by ticket punch on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 12:26:47 PM PST

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      •  I'm Going to Disagree... (7+ / 0-)

        The US Supreme Court has ruled that marriage IS a civil rights issue (Lovings v. State of Virginia).

        What the No on 8 forces did wrong was:

        -- Underestimate the resources of the Yes people, especially the Mormon cult leaders (with their sheep-like followers), the Knights of Columbus, Howard Ahmanson Jr. (always beware of a schizophrenic with a trust fund!) and those Focus on the Family pukes

        -- Refrain from exposing these forces' interference in state politics, mostly from out-of-state

        -- Refrain from exposing the lies of the Yes people until it was too late

        -- Performing NO outreach into black and latino communities to explain our case (and to oppose the corrosive lies of the organized religions they adhere to)

        The lie about "teaching teh GAY to the children in kindergarten" should have been combated much more strongly and much more quickly.

        Oh well-- now we know. Never count on organized religion to follow that commandment about "not bearing false witness".

        I guess we'll be in the back of the bus as usual, until you throw us under the wheels-- as usual.

        by CajunBoyLgb on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 12:48:27 PM PST

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        •  Think of it as a marketing issue just for a sec. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CajunBoyLgb

          The voters didn't respond to the "fundamental human right" appeal. You'll have to find another way to present the issue to them in a way that they do get.

          It doesn't mean selling out.

          It doesn't mean watering down the message.

          But it does mean doing a lot of listening. You'll get it. You'll carry the day. Just not with the current framing.

          As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

          by ticket punch on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 12:53:54 PM PST

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          •  Indeed (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ticket punch

            I think we're both circling around the same conclusion but using different cognitive approaches. Equally valid, just different.

            That is: I see your point, I think I just repeated it in different words a bit obtusely.

            And I agree. Wholeheartedly. And it had better go our way. I've got my marriage to the best guy in the world on the line!

            I guess we'll be in the back of the bus as usual, until you throw us under the wheels-- as usual.

            by CajunBoyLgb on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:34:19 PM PST

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            •  I think you get farther with a focus on dignity. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              CajunBoyLgb

              Think of the striking sanitation workers in Memphis and the message on their picket signs:

              I AM A MAN!

              They were striking over unequal pay. But they framed (as we say now) their cause as an issue of simple human dignity.

              As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

              by ticket punch on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:46:24 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  the voters lack of agreement (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ExStr8, craigkg, ticket punch, matpatbat

        doesn't change the fact that marriage is a civil right.

        •  You will respect the voters (0+ / 0-)

          and you will have a better appeal to them next time. The 8 result was a teachable moment, but as with all teachable moments, learning is optional.

          As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

          by ticket punch on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 01:43:49 PM PST

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        •  If in 1967 black civil rights came up for a vote, (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          craigkg, winsock, KentuckyKat

          I don't think it would have fared well either.

          •  A year after Loving v Virginia (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bperk

            in 1968, opposition to interracial marriage stood at 72%. It wasn't until 1991 that a plurality of Americans approved of interracial marriages, 48% to 42%. In 1998 and 2000, 38% and 40% of Alabamans and South Carolinians voted against the repeal of their interracial bans, some 31 and 33 years after they were struck down as unconstitutional. That is some deep, deep-setted racism there.

            There are 10 kind of people in the world: Those who understand binary and those who don't.

            by craigkg on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 04:25:24 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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