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View Diary: I cancelled my Marriott reservation today over Prop 8 -- Boycott Marriott! (324 comments)

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  •  And exactly who are you oppressing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    homogenius, ExStr8

    as an atheist?  Do you give money to anti-religious groups?

    I'm waiting to be written in The Book of Love. SGWM, 40, seeks VGL HWP....

    by Skylarking on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 12:49:47 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  And who exactly... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bperk

      ...is the average Mormon oppressing?  Should I hold them responsible for the actions of their leaders, or should the leaders be the ones who bear the burden?

      My point is that I can't make judgments on people who I don't know, least of all in the name of tolerance.

      "Hey everybody, get a load of this flaming wreckage!" -- Chief Wiggum commenting on the end of McCain's campaign.

      by DH from MD on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 01:02:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I mentioned before (0+ / 0-)

        Like it or not, each and every tithe-paying Mormon contributed to Yes on 8, whether they were consciously doing it or not.
        I have zero influence in the Mormon church hierarchy.  Tithe-paying Mormons DO have influence.

        I'm waiting to be written in The Book of Love. SGWM, 40, seeks VGL HWP....

        by Skylarking on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 01:11:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  My suspicion... (0+ / 0-)

          ...is that we aren't convincing each other of anything, and I'd like to end this on a relatively civil note.

          I would like to say that I do support the protests of any organization or businesses, secular or religious, that supported Proposition 8.  Good luck.

          "Hey everybody, get a load of this flaming wreckage!" -- Chief Wiggum commenting on the end of McCain's campaign.

          by DH from MD on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 01:19:41 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, tithing gives the group power, but (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ticket punch

          it doesn't give any individual power.  One individual does not have the power to direct how the Mormon church is going to use their money.  In this way, paying taxes would make me responsible for everything the U.S. government decides to do with that money.

      •  What's an average Mormon? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Skylarking

        Should I hold them responsible for the actions of their leaders?

        In a word:  Yes.

        Every time the 'average' Mormon tithes, even if they disagree with certain teachings of the church, they are complicit in opposing equal rights.  They have the CHOICE to remain members of their church or pick another faith.  Feeling bad about or disagreeing with what their church preaches does not make one an 'Average' Moromn.  There's no such thing as an 'average' Mormon. People of good conscience have quit their church over this battle.  That makes them former Mormons, not better-than-average Mormons.

        My 'diaries' SUCK! But check 'em out anyway just to make sure.

        by 4kedtongue on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 01:42:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Giving up their faith is too much to expect. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ticket punch, Skylarking

          If that is the road you think is necessary to achieve our ends, we will never win.  People are not going to give up their faith.  We need to convince people that their faith requires treating people with respect and letting people live their lives.  There is nothing about the Mormon faith that is flawed, it is the leaders holding bigoted views.  Active Mormon members speaking out against such views is the answer, not an outright rejection of their faith (and really most faiths at this point).

          •  I agree with you (0+ / 0-)

            They shouldn't give up their faith.  But they should discontinue donations if they truly do not support Prop 8, or they should voice their opinion.  Which is exactly what I'm doing by boycotting.

            I'm waiting to be written in The Book of Love. SGWM, 40, seeks VGL HWP....

            by Skylarking on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 01:59:18 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  But, you are boycotting a gay friendly business (0+ / 0-)

              because someone who works their tithes to a church that is not gay-friendly.  Bill Marriott didn't give money directly, and LDS, as far as I can see, also didn't give money directly to support Prop 8.  They did support prop 8 as did Catholics.  How far are you going to take this boycott?  And what do you want Marriott, the company, to do to end the boycott?

              •  Are they the only gay friendly business? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Viceroy

                You make it sound as if there are so few gay friendly businesses that we GLBT should be happy and just shut up.  And your assertion that LDS didn't not give money directly to support Prop 8 is contrary to AP and CNN.

                I'm waiting to be written in The Book of Love. SGWM, 40, seeks VGL HWP....

                by Skylarking on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:39:01 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I can only find information that (0+ / 0-)

                  Mormons gave.  I can't find any info that they gave money directly.  Do you have a link?

                  I'm not saying that there are a shortage of gay friendly businesses.  I'm saying that boycotting gay friendly businesses who have employees that are not accomplishes nothing.  Marriott, the company, can't do anything to earn your business without violating the law by firing people who are Mormons.  Marriott, the company, has done what they can do to show that they are not the enemy in this fight.  Are you going to advocate a boycott of the Dodgers because Jeff Kent gave money to support Prop 8.  Kent gave his money directly, not by tithing, to support bigotry.

                  •  If the Dodgers (0+ / 0-)

                    as a group gave money to Yes on 8, I would boycott them.  You really don't understand the concept and purpose of a boycott.  Either that or you're being obtuse on purpose.

                    I'm waiting to be written in The Book of Love. SGWM, 40, seeks VGL HWP....

                    by Skylarking on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 03:54:53 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Better analogy: If a Dodgers player (0+ / 0-)

                      gave money to support 8, and if you were a Dodgers fan, then what?

                      As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

                      by ticket punch on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 05:00:32 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Better Ananlogy... (0+ / 0-)

                        ...If George Steinbrenner gave money to 'yes' on 8, would I attend Yankees games?  

                        No, I wouldn't.

                        Furthermore, if I worked for Steinbrenner, I would quit...just like I would quit my church.  Just like I did quit my job waiting tables in a restaurant I worked in during college after overhearing the owner refer to an African-American dishwasher as a 'nigger'.  And I never ate there again either.  And I convinced every one of my friends NOT to eat there.

                        I didn't put the guy out of business, but I didn't support him either.  And before I walked out the door, I let him know WHY I was quitting, and that I planned to spread the word on campus to anyone who would listen to me.  I refuse to work for racists.  I refuse to do business with racists.

                        And if this were about any other 'minority' population, you wouldn't be here making your inane rationalizations.  You would be saying:  Yeah, there are plenty of hotel chains out there.  And I'm with you.

                        You're either being a contrarian for the sake of a good argument, or you're a completely unconcerned with the war being waged against the GLBT community -- and how it's being waged.

                        My 'diaries' SUCK! But check 'em out anyway just to make sure.

                        by 4kedtongue on Fri Nov 14, 2008 at 09:25:19 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I just don't feel comfortable (0+ / 0-)

                          singling out members of a religion for boycotts.  Marriott, the CEO, didn't support prop 8.  I can't find any evidence that he contributed one penny, despite his church's encouragement that its members do so.  He does send money to his church, which publicly and wrongly supports prop 8.  

                          I have no problem with boycotting orgs or people who supported prop 8.  In fact, I think it is a great idea.  I disagree that being a member of the Mormon church means that you must automatically be singled out as a supporter of prop 8, and, therefore, deserving of a boycott.  I think Marriott himself should be judged based on where he stands on the issue, not where the church stands.  People don't always agree with their church.  While you may feel comfortable leaving the church when you disagree, everyone does not.  I have never been a member of a church that I agree with 100% of the time.  Catholics use birth control way more than the church requires, and they just agree to disagree with their church.  All that to say, people do not always believe what their church believes.  A boycott should be directed at those who supported prop 8, not at members of any of the many churches who supported prop 8.  When you start boycotting anyone who is a Mormon because the church supports prop 8, it smacks of a different kind of discrimination and bigotry to me.

                    •  Are you suggesting that Marriott as an (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      ticket punch

                      organization gave money to Yes on 8?  If that is true, then certainly a boycott is in order.  Marriott is a publicly traded company and hasn't given any money.  Further the chairman and CEO of Marriott, Bill Marriott, also did not give money to Yes on 8.  He does, however, give money to his church, which supported prop 8.  I don't think I am being obtuse, I just don't see what you hope to gain from Marriott the company.

                      •  Fine... (0+ / 0-)

                        ...in a nutshell, we don't hope to gain ANYTHING from Marriott the company.  Nothing.  We want nothing.  We do not want a place to stay when we're on vacation, we have the Hyatt for that.

                        What does the company hope to gain from us?

                        Well, I would say, bperk, if the Marriott Company wants my business, its board should have a little talk with its CEO...maybe ask him to consider stepping down and selling off his shares of stock because his very visible presence at the top of the company is starting to effect the bottom line.

                        That's all.  Until then, I'll stay at another hotel.

                        Is that ok with you?

                        My 'diaries' SUCK! But check 'em out anyway just to make sure.

                        by 4kedtongue on Fri Nov 14, 2008 at 09:33:51 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  What you are suggesting is illegal. (0+ / 0-)

                          The Board cannot ask the CEO to step down because he is a member of the Mormon church.

                          Stay where you want.  I'd personally rather boycott those companies who gave money to support prop 8.

          •  Expecting my business... (0+ / 0-)

            ...is too much to expect.

            It is not the road that I think is necessary, it is the road those who USED to belong to the church felt was necessary.  And I agree with them.

            You may twist the logic all you want, but you can not have it both ways.

            If you give money through tithing -- or directly through personal political contributions based on what your minister tells you your church requires of you -- you should not expect one red cent from me.  If you continue to associate yourself with a religion that endorses bigotry in contradiction of your personal views, which is your right, you can not expect me to want to do business with you -- which is my right.  Nor do you have the right to expect me to not discourage others from doing business with you.

            Btw:

            There is nothing about the Mormon faith that is flawed, it is the leaders holding bigoted views.

            I COMPLETELY disagree with that statement...there are PLENTY of flaws.  One of which wasn't corrected until 1978 regarding blacks.  Give me a fucking break.  i don't give a shit if you don't drink coffee or abstain from alcohol or wear sexy, puritanical underwear...have at it.  The religion teaches bigotry...that's enough for me.

            My 'diaries' SUCK! But check 'em out anyway just to make sure.

            by 4kedtongue on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:06:52 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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