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View Diary: I cancelled my Marriott reservation today over Prop 8 -- Boycott Marriott! (324 comments)

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  •  Some do; some don't... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ticket punch, BFSkinner

    Are you opposed to all boycotts or just this one?

    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."

    by Viceroy on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 12:52:27 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Pretty much all, except in the most local (0+ / 0-)

      and most concentrated instances. Marriott's customer base and commercial "footprint" are too large and diffuse for any buying action to have any meaningful effect. Effort is better spent elsewhere.

      As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

      by ticket punch on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 12:57:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe; maybe not... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ExStr8, Buster CT1K

        Given that you support some boycotts, surely there is room in your mind to respect the views of others who would support this idea.  Some times, merely the threat of a boycott can change behavior - in any event, it has already generated awful pr for Marriott, which is already a partial success; your blithe dismissal notwithstanding.

        Right now, we're lashing out at anyone and everyone who would deny us equal protection of our civil rights.  I applaud the diarist's passion and his sense of justice.  Even if Marriot is completely blameless, it is helpful for them to get the message not to discriminate and for them and their execs to be wary of joining causes that deny fundamental civil rights.

        "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."

        by Viceroy on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 01:16:35 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  "Blithe dismissal"? You made that up. (0+ / 0-)

          Where did I put that tube of Troll-Be-Gone?

          As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

          by ticket punch on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 01:18:05 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  huh? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ticket punch, bperk, matpatbat

          Some times, merely the threat of a boycott can change behavior

          What behavior of Marriott Corporation are we trying to change?  The company did not support Prop 8.  They are a gay friendly company that is a leader in workplace equality for LGBTs.  What behavior or result are we trying to get here by boycotting them.  Laying off workers?  They have over 150,000 employees of which I am guessing MANY MANY are gay.  

          •  Huh? (0+ / 0-)

            Are you disagreeing with my statement that "some times, merely the threat of a boycott can change behavior?"  Why do you disagree?  Are you asserting that corporations and countries take actions completely dismissive of the potential consequences from trade competitors??  That is a really strange argument...

            If I were a corporate lawyer for Marriott, I would endeavor to assure that the actions (or perceived actions) of my client did not upset vast swaths of potential customers by denying them civil rights.  That would include any real or perceived ties which senior management maintained with religious organizations active in the public sphere.  My response might be to ensure that all employment practices are indeed as gay-friendly as you allege; I might even initiate an internal investigation to verify that (which would receive senior management attention).  Depending on how senior I was, I might even have a conversation with senior management about their real or perceived ties with discriminatory religious organizations; I might even recommend that the corporation buy out all outstanding shares from such senior management to avoid even the appearance of the stain of bigotry; I might even recommend an increase in the advertising budget directly targeting the (real or perceived) offended targeted customer base.

            Lots of actions can result from mere threats of boycotts.  Pretending that they can't or don't doesn't strike me as an intelligent response.

            "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."

            by Viceroy on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 01:44:15 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  If you were a lawyer, you would know that you (0+ / 0-)

              can't discriminate against any employees based on their religion.  That is what any boycott would try to enforce - a no Mormonism rule at Marriott.

              •  Hardly... (0+ / 0-)

                The actions I described as possible responses by a Marriott lawyer fall far short of a "no Mormonism" policy.  Try reading them!

                "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."

                by Viceroy on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 01:57:23 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Buying out the shares of managers (0+ / 0-)

                  because they have ties to religion is illegal.

                  •  No it's not... (0+ / 0-)

                    Counter-parties buy and sell securities every single day for any number of reasons and it most certainly is not illegal.  Try again - you've read one of them (and none of them would constitute a "no Mormonism" policy).

                    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."

                    by Viceroy on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:05:17 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Buying out the shares of managers means they (0+ / 0-)

                      lose their jobs because of their religion.  How is that legal?

                      •  No it doesn't... (0+ / 0-)

                        Buying shares means you buy shares.  Employment relations are a completely separate matter.  Individuals in inside (or outside) management or directorship positions can sell their shares to their employer corporation and maintain their lucrative jobs.  It happens all the time and, most certainly, is NOT illegal.  Try again.

                        "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."

                        by Viceroy on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:19:10 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  This is making no sense. (0+ / 0-)

                          Are you going to put them on a special list, so they get no further shares?  And, buying their shares at a set price when they could get more if they held on to them longer is discrimination anyway.

                          •  Huh? (0+ / 0-)

                            No special list.  Sell at market price.  Not illegal.

                            I really think you should read up on securities laws.

                            "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."

                            by Viceroy on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:28:50 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And if the managers refuse to sell? (0+ / 0-)

                            Then what?

                            As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

                            by ticket punch on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:29:28 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You need to read some employment law. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ticket punch

                            You cannot force employees to do something like sell their shares based on their religion.  That is discrimination based on their religion, and it is illegal.  If you are giving stock to your employees, but don't give it to the Mormons, that is also illegal.  If you are having a party and don't include the Mormons that is illegal.  You can't make your Mormon employees take special classes on not being bigots either.

                          •  Huh? (0+ / 0-)

                            Who said anyone is "forced" to do anything?  Your reading comprehension skills need some work.  Why do you make stuff up like that?  Are you interested in civil conversation?

                            Your "no Mormonism" assumption was (and remains) erroneous no matter how many posts you re-iterate it in.  Try again.

                            "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."

                            by Viceroy on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:37:58 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  What's that? Speak English. n/t (0+ / 0-)

                            As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

                            by ticket punch on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:42:35 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  If they refuse to sell their Marriott shares, (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            bperk

                            then what?

                            As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

                            by ticket punch on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:43:18 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And this quote. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ticket punch

                            I might even recommend that the corporation buy out all outstanding shares from such senior management to avoid even the appearance of the stain of bigotry

                            This suggestion is still illegal.

                          •  No it's not... (0+ / 0-)

                            Like I said many many posts above, counter-parties (including management) willingly buy and sell shares every day.  Your failure to grasp this rather simple concept is illustrative.

                            "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."

                            by Viceroy on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:47:49 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  What happens when both parties aren't "willing"? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            bperk

                            It's a simple question.

                            As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

                            by ticket punch on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:50:57 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  A corporation buying (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ticket punch

                            the shares of senior managers because they are mormons is a violation of title VII of the Civil Rights Act.  I don't understand how you fail to grasp that.

                          •  No it's not... (0+ / 0-)

                            because the buyers and sellers would be willing.  Again, no matter how many times you say it, your "no Mormonism" assumption is just as erroneous as the first time you posted it.

                            Pretending that I advocated forcing someone against their will to do something is a baldfaced lie.  If you continue to argue with your strawman to the exclusion of what I actually say, you will forever label youself as a baldfaced liar.

                            Why the continual posts?  Why the refusal to address the substantive points I raised??  You argue in circles and refuse to address anything other than your own wrong assumption-based belief.

                            Why do your persist in your ignorance?

                            "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."

                            by Viceroy on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:58:14 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  WHO SAYS the managers would be "willing" (0+ / 0-)

                            to sell their Marriott shares?

                            What if they're unwilling? What then?

                            As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

                            by ticket punch on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 03:00:37 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Then one of my four suggested (0+ / 0-)

                            actions by a Marriott corporate lawyer would have failed.  There are several other available options - too bad nobody read them ar made a serious comment about them.

                            "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."

                            by Viceroy on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 03:06:37 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  The lawyer comes to chat. I say no. What then? (0+ / 0-)

                            As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

                            by ticket punch on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 03:09:00 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You're absolutely wrong. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ticket punch

                            You don't know what you are talking about and are becoming more strident about your point.  If Mormons are "offered" the opportunity to sell their stock, prepare yourself for a lawsuit.  What does willing even mean when your employer wants you to do something?

                            As to my "no Mormonism" statement, I have never heard of a company buying stock from their managers and keeping them on.  The whole point of managers having stock is to make them more productive.  I was assuming that buying stock from their employees was akin to firing them, which would be sending a message of no Mormonism.  The situation that you are positing where a company buys back their stock from a particular group, but keeps them on is not one that happens in the real world as far as I have ever heard.  

        •  As the diarist, I say... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Viceroy

          Thank you for your applause!  Much appreciated.

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